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Old February 24th, 2017, 02:36 PM   #5721
Max BGF
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When comparing the details of both pics for Au Petit Bazar there are not so many differences as it appears at first sight.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 03:29 PM   #5722
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The roof treatment and apparent "penthouse" is the big problem which could be addressed easily with some encouragement, if not pressure, on the GHND.

The rest of the structure, I agree, may not be 100% perfect, but compared to the majority of modernist and irresponsible new Dresden buildings, it's a win.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #5723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max BGF View Post
When comparing the details of both pics for Au Petit Bazar there are not so many differences as it appears at first sight.
Sure, but still, the strength of Dresden reconstruction lied in the "either identical, extremely faithful reconstruction, or nothing".

I want to know what is faithful and what is modern. I really dislike the idea of building something that mimics the historical building, but deviates, even slightly.
I would rather have preferred an utterly modern building or an expressionist one, in case the exact replica is unavailable.

And let's look at the building itself: it's not classy at all, the statues are too short and those rectangles in the façade make it look a lot cheaper. The roof and the penthouse are simply hideous, and I especially dislike the tiny roof windows. What's the point?

And finally: is it ethic for a developer, who should be controlled, to also be a controller and approve his own projects? To me it looks like a big conflict of interests (and trust me, my country knows very well what it means, unfortunately )
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Old February 24th, 2017, 09:50 PM   #5724
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If you compare the two, it looks like they shrunk the entire floor with big glass windows and statues, and made them smaller, which is ridiculous.

Generally speaking, I can't really understand people in Dresden who make decisions about architecture in their city. Dresden was destroyed twice already, once in WWII, then the second time by ideology that destroyed what was left, but it seems to me now it's being destroyed again by people who are rebuilding it. I understand it would be too expensive to reconstruct everything, but what they could have done is at least do faithful reconstructions in the city core - old town, and then gradually move towards modern architecture, while preserving the density and street grids. For someone to decide to keep that ugly Kulturpalast in the middle of a baroque old town is beyond me.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #5725
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Slightly larger version of the modern interpretation of an historicist building:



https://twitter.com/szonline/status/...034818/photo/1

To be perfectly honest I'm ok with it. 95% of all people would mistake this for a building from the 19th century or even earlier.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #5726
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Right. Let's be honest. This building isn't "pure" but a million times better than atrocities like the kulturpalast, the southside of the AltMarkt, the Hilton hotel in the neumarkt, and many others. This is far superior to the modern corner on the opposite end of the DinglingerHaus, just a few feet away.

Everything is a trade off. And most solutions occur within an acceptable range. I think this is in the acceptable range.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 11:12 PM   #5727
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The only thing that really does bother me about the new interpretation is the gap to the neighbouring building that is filled by a more contemporary design
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Old February 24th, 2017, 11:23 PM   #5728
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At least the gap follows the uniformity of the Petit Bazar... But at the end, yes, it will look quite ok really.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 11:32 PM   #5729
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And guys don't forget to celebrate the various buildings which were planned here and that haven't been realized. I haven't saved them on my PC, but I'm sure guys here can remember what would have been (and what wasn't pretty) This is really an improvement of the plans AND finally, we have waited for so long but when this building is realized the Kulturpalast won't be visible from the Neumarkt anymore!!
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Old February 28th, 2017, 02:51 AM   #5730
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I have a hard time with the idea that a building in Dresden must either be a faithful reconstruction or some modernist crap. What is wrong with new constructions that are sympathetic to what was once there? Obviously reconstructions are the best but that may not always be feasible,
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Old February 28th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #5731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Yep, it is a huge disappointment in many regards:

1) The legitimacy of the whole Neumarkt project will take a big hit. Fantasy buildings so far were very rare. There was just one building with a doubled facade. With this new building block reconstruction opponents can finally justifiably call the Neumarkt Disneyland.

2) The reputation of the GHND, the defenders of a faithfully reconstructed Neumarkt, will take a big hit, since it is one of their own members, an honorable member even, that we have to thank for this Frankenstein of a building.

3) The original Au Petit Bazar was a unique, beautiful and well proportioned building that will now never return.

4) A roof like it is now planned for the new Au Petit Bazar is completely atypical for Dresden. It will stick out like a sore thumb.

5) The narrow intermediate building between the new Au Petit Bazar and the rest of the building block is visually very unsatisfactory and disruptive.

6) Because of the additional narrow intermediate building the baroque symmetry of the neighbouring building will be ruined.
Tiaren is absolutely right!

Petit Bazar was en important historic landmark and the way they want to "rebuilt" it now is just a monstrosity.
It is out of proportion and negates the historic symmetry that is so important to show the developement of the original baroque building into the one with the remodelt left pavillon by Semper! Instead of building this crap it would be better to just build its original form before Sempers remoddeling. So we would get at least some sort of historic correctness.

I dont say that the new developenent is a bad building, it would be nice for another spot, but to build this as a "reconstruction" is just awful.
historical corectness is a must at this location!
This might be hard to understand for people who are used to get a lot of buildings that just look historic, which is of course ok, but not if those buildings aim to be some sort of a recontruction!









And there is a reason why the only show the left part on the renderings, because try to hide, that the important symmetry will be broken forever!






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Old March 2nd, 2017, 05:06 PM   #5732
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The 19th century building, even if historically correct, breaks the 'symmetry', as it is. My opinion is that it should be built as it was in the 18th century.

Regardless of the outcome here, even the modern reinterpretation is far better than a glass box or lame Lego joke.
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Old March 5th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #5733
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I agree it's much, much better than what we could've hoped for earlier or what other new "interpretations" performed around neumarkt. And indeed, the pre-war ensemble wasn't symmetric either. The actual charm about an old town is its asymmetries and the chaos. Thus I'll remain skeptic about the outcome and still be lucky what we possibly get. I'd opt for a tiled roof instead of a glas pavillon for the filler though, and a better solution for the courtyard portal.
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Old March 10th, 2017, 09:22 PM   #5734
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The glass roof is a curious addition. Perhaps it offers a view of the Neumarkt?
Just as likely, though, is the determination of the city planners to sabotage any effort to reconstruct anything faithfully.
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Old March 10th, 2017, 09:23 PM   #5735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The actual charm about an old town is its asymmetries and the chaos.
Absolutely!
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Old March 11th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #5736
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and maintaining the many narrow streets, alleys, and passages without creating set backs and open spaces. The chaos all crowded in together is ever so important to the historical tone.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:14 PM   #5737
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Indeed! Here some pictures!



On the right hand the "Chiapponische Haus"


The Frauen Strasse will become one of the most beautiful streets!




The Neumarkt front



pictures are with approval from user bilderbuch APH
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Old March 21st, 2017, 03:25 PM   #5738
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Wonderful reconstructions at Dresden! I would like to see more of the Neustädter side reconstructed, as well as some consistency on Wilsdruffer Straße, which is a bit of a mess. The area around Prager Straße in historical style would be incredible, though will almost certainly not happen Pirnaischer Platz too.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 03:41 PM   #5739
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I'm afraid that if initiative for historical reconstructions stalls for even a short period (say after the planned reconstruction of the Narrenhäusal and surrounding buildings) it will lose all momentum and be swiftly stamped out by its opponents, thus ending a brief renaissance in Dresden. Let's hope for an enduring front, so that Dresden may restore some of its urban fabric, and, most importantly, its soul.

The thought of a complete reconstruction is absurd, but I'd like to see this work expand, hopefully with less modernist reinterpretations of classical buildings
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:24 PM   #5740
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At one point, after we saw the result of a lovely reconstruction (Semper Oper) and after the Wall came down, the idea of a nearly complete reconstruction was not out of reach or reality. But the quick and easy road to riches led many developers to give us PragerStrasse and the many other modern space-fillers that will be around for a long time.

You are completely correct...without the ongoing pressure to maintain a historical component to the architectural planning of the city, future developments may well all take on the look of MarienStrasse and the south end of the Alt Markt.
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