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Old May 19th, 2017, 01:35 AM   #5841
qjone2
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This photo of the Frauenkirche was taken during the occasion of its re-dedication in 2005.
Wow! It must have been special actually being there. Can I ask what it felt like? Were people noticeably excited? What was it like when they first rang the bells? Lots of older people or a more mixed turn out?
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Old May 20th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #5842
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I got hooked on Dresden on my first trip in 1987. The ruins. A professor at Berkeley called Dresden a "black hole of American history", so that motivated a type of pilgrimage. I spoke to many people asking essentially two questions: 1) will Germany ever unite? and 2) will Dresden ever get rebuilt? 100% of those interviewed responded with a strong NO to both questions.

This photo of the Frauenkirche was taken during the occasion of its re-dedication in 2005. Yesterday, I happened to look at the image, a huge reproduction of which I have on display, and noticed the clock is at 5:17...and yesterday was 5-17. Weird, right? So I thought it best to post the shot.
What an interesting little post ! Thanks for sharing.
Im so jealous you got to see Dresden from its ruins as it transformed into what it is today.
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 05:01 AM   #5843
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Wow! It must have been special actually being there. Can I ask what it felt like? Were people noticeably excited? What was it like when they first rang the bells? Lots of older people or a more mixed turn out?

The day was October 30, 2005. Reformation Sunday. The Frauenkirche stood alone as a completed structure in the Neumarkt. Quarter I was under construction, but the rest just in planning. So the area was wide open for the people. Tens of thousands started gathering early in the morning; it was a bright, sunny, cool day and the church glistened in the morning light. The first sounds were the church bells which rang out to the applause of the audience. After a few moments the bells were silenced, and the great organ boomed forth with "A Mighty Fortress is Our God", one of Martin Luther's favorite hymns. Concurrent with the start of the hymn, the Lutheran flag was unfurled from the tower cupola and the entire audience erupted in song, singing loud and strong the words to the hymn. It was almost like a choral symphony. Very moving and actually intense.
There was a blended overtone of deep seriousness, inner joy, painful memories, and peaceful comfort. The audience included the very old, very young, and all in between. I was impressed by the large amount of young adults who clearly were engrossed in the historic and emotional event. They clearly seemed to be filled with pride.
When the ceremony ended, people lingered and the day was filled with Church tours, music, and walking tours of the area and beyond. A great sense of joy filled the air, and one could "feel" a uniform sigh of relief and joy that this day had finally come.
There were no protests that I saw.
Free bus tours were also planned to take people to the Heidefriedhof Cemetery on the northwest side of the metro area. I walked to the cemetery and back. This is the place were the bodily remains of the bombing victims were interred in a mass grave, with a memorial.
From the rebirth of the Frauenkirche, to the victims memorial, and back to the Neumarkt. It was a great day.
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 05:43 AM   #5844
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Sounds amazing! Thank you!

Slightly unrelated, but does anyone know how the reconstruction project at the Neumarkt was actually initiated? I know the Frauenkirche was planned almost as soon as Reunification occurred, but what stopped the council/investors from installing modern structures around the Neumarkt, like they did with the rest of the city? Was it the result of very strong citizen initiative or did the council back then actually support it?
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 06:22 AM   #5845
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I've been thinking, while looking at old photos and of paintings, on the very common mansard-type roofs of the 18. century there are two, three and sometimes four (!) rows vertically of dormer windows.

I know that the first row was usually for lighting an extra floor inside the roof which was inhabited or rented out, but what about the smaller, often-circular windows above that? were they strictly decorative? or did they serve some other purpose?
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 01:51 PM   #5846
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what stopped the council/investors from installing modern structures around the Neumarkt, like they did with the rest of the city? Was it the result of very strong citizen initiative or did the council back then actually support it?
That. For the Neumarkt, most of the credit should go to the citizen initiative GHND (="society of the historical Neumarkt Dresden").

Their website, wich is currently U/C: http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/en/home/
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 02:18 PM   #5847
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That. For the Neumarkt, most of the credit should go to the citizen initiative GHND (="society of the historical Neumarkt Dresden").
A great organisation. I wish other German cities would have such strong initiative. I know Stadtbild Deutschland exists, but their influence seems very diluted.
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 02:23 PM   #5848
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Stadtbild Deutschland only quite recently started "expanding" into various cities "officially". For years, it's been sort of a guerilla influencer.

They organise internally currently and develop strategies to influence building policies in urban areas and rural areas even more - across the country. Stay tuned for the years to come, the network is getting bigger and bigger, and more powerful. Many citizen initiatives also came into existence from Stadtbild (as a great portion of the mentioned GHND, DomRömer in Frankfurt, or Mitteschön in Potsdam) or are heavily influenced and electrified by it.

Local Stadtbild branches so far:
http://stadtbild-deutschland.org/web...tsverbaende-2/
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 02:38 PM   #5849
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Wow! It must have been special actually being there. Can I ask what it felt like? Were people noticeably excited? What was it like when they first rang the bells? Lots of older people or a more mixed turn out?
It was shown on public television. I remember that me and my parents visited the church only some days later.
IMO, the best part of the ceremony was the singing of "Nun danket alle Gott (Now thank we all our god)".

( at 4min)
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 03:58 PM   #5850
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Stadtbild Deutschland only quite recently started "expanding" into various cities "officially". For years, it's been sort of a guerilla influencer.

They organise internally currently and develop strategies to influence building policies in urban areas and rural areas even more - across the country. Stay tuned for the years to come, the network is getting bigger and bigger, and more powerful. Many citizen initiatives also came into existence from Stadtbild (as a great portion of the mentioned GHND, DomRömer in Frankfurt, or Mitteschön in Potsdam) or are heavily influenced and electrified by it.
Yes, I've heard a little about this and hope it gains traction. Already I've read that a Stadtbild affiliate is calling for the reconstruction of the old Schauspielhaus in Frankfurt, and Stadtbild Magdeburg has drawn up a plan for possible reconstructions around their market square.

The only concern I have is that these groups seem to lack any real exposure to the general public; what they advocate for would likely pique the interest of a lot of citizens, even if they don't necessarily support it. People are increasingly interested in history and, in particular, their own past. This is something that could be capitalised on to a greater extent, in my mind. I don't know the specific laws/attitudes abroad, but where I'm from people often take to the streets to advocate for certain groups/initiatives, and being stopped to sign petitions is not unusual. These causes very often gain ground (as long as they're not too outlandish – there are some strange people ), even if it takes time.

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Old May 23rd, 2017, 02:42 AM   #5851
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When the Frauenkirche was being rebuilt I somehow found out about it and I donated maybe two or three hundred euros to its restoration. It's funny but every time I see a picture of the Frauenkirche I feel I was a part of it. We all have that opportunity again with the Berlin Palace to be a part of something important that will be there for the ages. It's a wonderful feeling to be a part of something big and I encourage others to donate.
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 02:44 AM   #5852
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Website
Go here to donate and find more info: http://berliner-schloss.de/en/donations/
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Old May 25th, 2017, 04:39 AM   #5853
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There are renewed calls for reconstructions in Dresden! The Semperclub wishes for the reconstruction of the Palais Oppenheim near the Burgerwiese, citing that it was a valuable example of neoclassical architecture in Germany, and was an important centre of Jewish culture. This comes amidst plans to redevelop the Lignerstadt in modern form.



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Old May 25th, 2017, 12:45 PM   #5854
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There are renewed calls for reconstructions in Dresden! The Semperclub wishes for the reconstruction of the Palais Oppenheim near the Burgerwiese, citing that it was a valuable example of neoclassical architecture in Germany, and was an important centre of Jewish culture. This comes amidst plans to redevelop the Lignerstadt in modern form.
Was it completely destroyed or is there something left of it?
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Old May 25th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #5855
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Was it completely destroyed or is there something left of it?
It was somewhat damaged in the war, but was –despite massive protests by the public– demolished in 1952. The foundations are of course still there and the land is unoccupied.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 08:16 PM   #5856
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It was somewhat damaged in the war, but was –despite massive protests by the public– demolished in 1952. The foundations are of course still there and the land is unoccupied.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 04:27 AM   #5857
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It may be small, but I think it is shaping up to be one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #5858
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I've come across an interesting study by the Warwick Business School.

The asked 212,000 people to comment on the perceived 'scenicness' of various images.

Contrary to popular belief, they found that attractive and 'cohesive' architectural ensembles were perceived as being just as 'scenic' as beautiful natural environments. This aligns with other studies that suggest that pleasant surrounds boost happiness, wellbeing, and productivity.

And the cohesive, attractive, architecture that they speak of is found to be the more classical kind. In fact, other studies show that old architectural styles are consistently rated as more attractive and pleasant than their modern counterparts.

This disrupts a lot of modern architectural thinking, whereby aesthetics are usually secondary to their assertion that 'form must follow function'. These studies also show that striking contrasts in architecture (something today's architects seem to love) are actually widely seen as disharmonious and unpleasant.

So while beauty is subjective, it appears there is some consensus on the attractiveness of architecture, which likely relates to a biological desire for harmony and the associated sense of security. Just like the general concensus of 'beauty' in people is instinctively and subconsciously related to a biological desire to produce healthy, strong offspring.

All of this makes you wonder why planning officials and architects continue to support the construction and maintainance of cityscapes that most people scientifically find unpleasant, while denying the building of styles that make people happy and healthy. The only reason reconstructions are so popular with the public is because even simple classical flourishes (that people are scientifically shown to like) in modern architecture are seen as regressive; as such, this is seen as the only avenue people have to beautify their cities.

This is particularly relevant to Dresden, whose city planners and politicians are strongly against reconstructions, even though so much of the city centre is quite ugly and new constructions continue to be ugly.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 03:23 AM   #5859
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Unfortunately its politics. Its about one group's belief they know what is best for the masses. Sound familiar?
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Old May 29th, 2017, 11:55 AM   #5860
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Unfortunately its politics. Its about one group's belief they know what is best for the masses. Sound familiar?
This is seen with the debate surrounding the potential restoration of the colonades in front of the Berlin Schloss. A modern monument is planned, and will probably be built, even though recent public surveys show that people are largely in favour of the original colonnades.
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