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Old November 19th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #901
Darryl
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Thanks Tiaren. That map helps me understand the project so much better.

One thing I noticed...

It seems they sort of worked their way around the Frauenkirche in a clockwise direction starting with quartier 1, than 2, than 3, etc... But, when they got to quartier 5 they skipped over 6 and 7 and went straight to 8. That's a shame because quartier 6 would block off that hideous "Kulturpalast" (yuck!) from view of the main square. It would be nice if they could construct quartier 6 sooner rather than later.

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Old November 19th, 2008, 11:15 PM   #902
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...also, it would be nice to see an actual aerial photo of the same area Tiaren's map shows. Are there any out there? That were taken recently? That would be really interesting.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
No doesn't seem so.
Maybe the old Belvedere on Brühlsche Terasse.
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20041116052747
But only proposed so far.

You have to know, that it's a little wonder, that so much of the Neumarkt was finally reconstructed. The City of Dresden (not the inhabitants of Dresden but politicians) are not in favor of reconstructions.

Here the up do date Map of Neumarkt (edited by me):

green: planned
dark orange: already completed
light orange: under construction right now
light orange framed: construction starts soon
red framed: should really be demolished!!! But not in the near future...
Ok I see that (and by the way - I guess that black colour represents buildings which were not destroyed by bombs in 1945 ?) What really interests me is who has already paid for this restoration (citizens of dresden, german government ?)? Does anybody know ?
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Old November 20th, 2008, 02:14 AM   #904
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Ok I see that (and by the way - I guess that black colour represents buildings which were not destroyed by bombs in 1945 ?) What really interests me is who has already paid for this restoration (citizens of dresden, german government ?)? Does anybody know ?
The black buildings by large have been severely damaged by the war or were even destroyed but already restored at an earlier date.

The Frauenkirche was I think financed entirely by private donations from all over the world. The other buildings are projects of private investors who want to earn money with them, by large. I don't know if there are exceptions to this.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 03:16 PM   #905
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Why is the City of Dresden not in favor of reconstructions? Dresden's Baroque architecture is what made the city famous and that is what the tourists come to see. Modern architecture just doesn't draw as much as historic. Personally I'd like to see everything rebuilt (without any of these new modern buildings) but something is most definitely better than nothing. Kudos to the investors for making Dresden a beautiful city again.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #906
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Seeing where Quartiers V, VI, and VII are to be rebuilt makes me feel like the retention of the Kulturpalast isn't such a disaster after all: it won't really be visible from the Neumarkt.

Thank God for small favors.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 07:07 PM   #907
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^ Indeed. But in the long term the Kulturpalast constrains the expansion of the old town reconstruction.
Especially the Altmarkt area is sorta encapsuled from the shining Neumarkt area, if the Kulturpalast remains. There will be no extension of reconstruction works if the KP isn't going to be torn down.


Just to illustrate my point - a 2006 aerial view of Dresden old town (Altmarkt to the left):

Source: Wiki


The boxy Kulturpalast bulkheads the rest of the old town off the Altmarkt area. It creates a lot of disharmony that is unsuitable in its baroque surroundings.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #908
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Ich denke mir jetzt wäre die Chance, bevor man irrsinnig viel Geld in den Kasten an dieser Stelle steckt, könnte man ihn ja abbauen und wo er nicht stört von mir aus direkt neben dem Altstadtbereich wieder aufbauen (steht ja jetzt unter Denkmalschutz). Der geschaffene Freiraum könnte zur Realisierung der ursprünglichen Arkadenpläne verwerndet werden, so nur als Beispiel. Auf jeden Fall könnte man so Neumarkt und Altmarkt organisch zu einem ganzen verbinden. Dann könnte man von der Größe her schon direkt wieder von einer Altstadt im Zentrum Dresdens reden.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 03:08 PM   #909
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One thing is sure! Dresden looks gorgeous from street level but horrendous from the air... eeewww...
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Old November 21st, 2008, 08:13 PM   #910
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...arkt_Karte.jpg

Thank you for the map. I now finially know what is the are of the reconstruction! I just only get a feeling that for example Landhausstrasse or Moritzgasse are to thin with that height of the building. I am aware that this was like this before, but they are probably very dark, aren't day?
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Old November 21st, 2008, 11:55 PM   #911
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Is any other city in Germany being restored now ? in comparable scale ?
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Old November 25th, 2008, 12:39 PM   #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchitectCS View Post
Why is the City of Dresden not in favor of reconstructions? Dresden's Baroque architecture is what made the city famous and that is what the tourists come to see. Modern architecture just doesn't draw as much as historic.
This architecture is as modern as it gets. Just rebuilding a couple of blocks in a style that apparently resemble old buildings doesn't make them "historic". History makes buildings historic, and you can't rebuild history.

I may understand rebuilding the Frauenkirche has a symbolic value. But the reconstruction of a whole city centre in a fake style is just...
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Old November 25th, 2008, 12:43 PM   #913
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What is fake about it? These same exact buildings stood there until WW2.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #914
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What is fake about it? These same exact buildings stood there until WW2.
Those buildings were completely lost in the first place, so any attempt to completely rebuild them make them fake.
If you rebuild in Dubai or Las Vegas the same exact buildings that stood in Dresden until WW2, you don't make them original just because from the outside they seem identical, and there isn't any reason that would make them more original in Dresden just because they stand in a place where 60 years ago stood some apparently identical buildings.

Besides that, they are not the same exact building at all, since they are built with modern techniques and materials.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #915
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What about the campanile on St. Mark's Square in Venice? Fake?

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If you rebuild in Dubai or Las Vegas the same exact buildings that stood in Dresden until WW2, you don't make them original just because from the outside they seem identical, and there isn't any reason that would make them more original in Dresden just because they stand in a place where 60 years ago stood some apparently identical buildings.
Sorry but imo it makes a huge difference where you rebuild these buildings. Building them in Dubai would have been fake but there's nothing fake about putting them where they used to be 60 years ago.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:15 PM   #916
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^ Same with Monte Cassino. Do you call that fake?


As an Italian, it's a walkover for you Fed. But you guys didn't lose the old cores of all your major cities

And they don't rebuild the whole former city center - they're far from that. It's just one square - the most significant one of the city that is needed to have at least some sort of city again. Modern architecture fails at this place, as you should be able to spot (Socialist Kulturpalast, modern filler buildings).
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Last edited by erbse; November 25th, 2008 at 01:32 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #917
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What about the campanile on St. Mark's Square in Venice? Fake?
Yep, it's fake, but it falls into category "single building with high symbolic value", just like the Frauenkirche. Healing an urban wound that would impair an historical quartier is ok, rebuilding a whole city centre where everything was lost is something different IMO.

I'd go the Berlin way rather than the Dresden way (unless they will rebuild the Stadtschloss ).

Last edited by Federicoft; November 25th, 2008 at 01:44 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:30 PM   #918
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As an Italian, it's a walkover for you Fed. But you guys didn't lose the old cores of all your major cities
Well, it's not that easy. Just as an example out of many: most of Milan was lost in WW2. This is how it looked before the war, when it was probably one of the finest city in Europe, this is how it looks now (and many other cities suffered extensive damages too).

Most people think it's the ugliest city in Italy, still I'm so happy it wasn't rebuilt as it was. Probably it is not a raving beauty, but surely is a city with a strong spirit.
A city should find its identity in the present rather than longing for a past that was beautiful, but doesn't exist anymore, and nobody can give you back.

Last edited by Federicoft; November 25th, 2008 at 04:28 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:36 PM   #919
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Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
Most people think it's the ugliest city in Italy, still I'm so happy it wasn't rebuilt as it was.
A city should find its identity in the present rather than longing for a past that was beautiful, but doesn't exist anymore, and nobody can give you back.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:44 PM   #920
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The boxy Kulturpalast bulkheads the rest of the old town off the Altmarkt area. It creates a lot of disharmony that is unsuitable in its baroque surroundings.
Judging from the picture it's surronded by socrealism rather then baroque...
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