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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #1961
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What I do not understand of this discussion is the question if it is fake or not. Why this obsessed idea that you cannot build something new in an old style because then it is a fake? People like the style, people like details and ornaments, and people like it when the building follow the street. It is an old concept that has worked before so why not do things that people perceive as beautiful? Fake or not fake is irrelevant. Does it look good or not I think is much more relevant and the reconstruction of Dresden certainly looks good.

Of course some reconstructions are perhaps not perfect, but I think that that could also be said about some new modern buildings, and that doesn’t stop us from building new buildings.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:17 PM   #1962
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Some interior shots of Rampische Straße 29, courtesy of neumarkt-dresden.de









Dorm room:









Courtyard:















IMO the best reconstruction to date, particularly because of the lime plaster (?) they've used. It gives the place sort of an instant patina.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:39 PM   #1963
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I think it would have been a better choice if officials have decided to restore a certain part of the old town and put efforts to preserve anything more authentic left instead. I mean this way they could have concentrated money and work on a certain segment of the old town so it would be done the best possible way.

I'm not sure if some creative and new buildings wouldn't gain more architecture value in future than some of these reproduction buildings.
If done with the right inspiration some new structures could become as valuable in future as the classic architecture is nowadays. And there's a certain difference between the old towns reconstructed right after the war, many of them were build on the same foundations and with pretty much the same technologies and materials. I also don't think refurbished old building equals a reproduction building , after all you get different feelings when you look at or walk into a building that was built decades ago and carries history (even if it's been upgraded) and another that just look like one but it's built in 2010, it doesn't feel the same IMO.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:55 PM   #1964
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I think you're forgetting that there was no old town left in Dresden. What's more, most modern architecture is rather forgettable, unless you're talking about grand projects like the Guggenheim in Bilbao that stand out on their own. Modern architects have failed to create cityscapes and ensembles (not solitary buildings like the aforementioned Guggenheim) which people want to live in.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #1965
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Warsaw is a perfect example. I'm sure plenty of people would never guess that the old town was reconstructed after WWII (albeit sometimes with old materials).

Absolutely right - does anyone question these days that the Campanile in St. Marks Square Venice is a fake just because it was rebuilt in the original design in circa 1900 - of course not, most would not even know this is a reconstruction.
Using design principles from the past has been going on for centuries and many of the world's greatest buildings are based on classical elements from ancient Greece and Rome. So called "Disneyland" buildings are in fact incorrect in scale and ornament and have nothing to do with faithful reconstructions or original designs using the correct principles of architecture which evolved throughout the ages.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 02:20 PM   #1966
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I think you're forgetting that there was no old town left in Dresden.
Exactly that's why i think it would be better if they were restoring a certain part of it and preserve the few authentic buildings left instead of remaking whole concepts.

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What's more, most modern architecture is rather forgettable, unless you're talking about grand projects like the Guggenheim in Bilbao that stand out on their own. Modern architects have failed to create cityscapes and ensembles (not solitary buildings like the aforementioned Guggenheim) which people want to live in.
Right, my point is that officials could have focused on some ambitious project to rebirth and not just rebuilt the city. With the right push, the money (which Germany has) and with certain creative ideas they could turn Dresden into emblematic city once again. I know people probably feel compfty with the cozy classical ensembles , but even with the large part of old town remade it would be just another neat European city , and with no features that would give its special feel that it once had. At least that's my view , perhaps modern architects rally can't face the challenge , or perhaps the people aren't ready for one yet , or may be no one got the courage to try it.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 02:29 PM   #1967
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Exactly that's why i think it would be better if they were restoring a certain part of it and preserve the few authentic buildings left instead of remaking whole concepts.
My point is that there was nothing left, hence there is nothing to restore (the Zwinger and a couple of other places were rebuilt by the Commies but that was about it...and these buildings have undergone renovations since 1990 as well). The area around the Frauenkirche was a parking lot for quite a while and the Neumarkt is more or less the area that could have been described as the old town before the war.

Quote:
Right, my point is that officials could have focused on some ambitious project to rebirth and not just rebuilt the city. With the right push, the money (which Germany has) and with certain creative ideas they could turn Dresden into emblematic city once again. I know people probably feel compfty with the cozy classical ensembles , but even with the large part of old town remade it would be just another neat European city , and with no features that would give its special feel that it once had.
Coziness certainly plays a role but I think people just want a sense of identity back. Old architecture is always deeply intertwined with the region it is located in. You can eg notice right away if a city used to be part of the AT-HU empire because of its architecture whereas much of modern architecture seems to be interchangeable. Dresden had so much beautiful baroque architecture that was lost during the war so imo it's perfectly legitimate to try and bring back some of it. Could modern architects have created a similar space? Perhaps, but the past decades certainly haven't yielded any encouraging signs in that respect.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 02:57 PM   #1968
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You have a point , after all i'm looking at it from a distant point of view. I guess people there are more attached to their architectural heritage simply because they have it , as my country for instance doesn't have much architectural characteristics for objective reasons so i may underestimate a bit its value.

But then again classical architecture is great with the old times spirit it brings first and then with its good looks for me, I'm also fascinated by other styles and could find examples of early or late modernism to be as exciting. As long as they're not cheap in ideas and realization. Still i think for every city it's better to look with a step more into the future horizon than the past as this provokes new ideas and creativity. Just like those guys who decided to build the Empire State instead of doing something ordinary and now we have skyscrapercity forum. As many innovative things often tend to become classics in time.

Anyway I really hope the final result would be better than i've expected and the restorations are done really well.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 04:11 PM   #1969
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I think a lot of people would be surprised just how much was rebuilt after WWII across Europe. I recently visited Budapest to find that much had been destroyed during the war but subsequently rebuilt. The bridges were completely destroyed as was much of the old town. However, today it looks like it was completely untouched.
In the 19th century, also, reconstructions were frequent and often fake. Notre dame in Paris for instance was restored in such a way to include elements that had never existed at one and the same time, but rather at seperate times in the evolution of that cathedral.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #1970
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I think a lot of people would be surprised just how much was rebuilt after WWII across Europe. I recently visited Budapest to find that much had been destroyed during the war but subsequently rebuilt. The bridges were completely destroyed as was much of the old town. However, today it looks like it was completely untouched.
In the 19th century, also, reconstructions were frequent and often fake. Notre dame in Paris for instance was restored in such a way to include elements that had never existed at one and the same time, but rather at seperate times in the evolution of that cathedral.
Another good example was Vienna, when living there I was surprised to learn that there was actually heavy bombing damage to the city. Look around today and you would never know as modernization has done much more damage.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 02:02 AM   #1971
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Still i think for every city it's better to look with a step more into the future horizon than the past as this provokes new ideas and creativity. Just like those guys who decided to build the Empire State instead of doing something ordinary and now we have skyscrapercity forum. As many innovative things often tend to become classics in time.
however this comparative is a bit unparallel. New York did not destroy its best neighborhoods to make way for the empire state building. NY has a concerted effort to retain its classic areas and building codes are strictliy enforced.

For a New York example, the rebuiidng of the World Trade Center is better. This area destroyed on 9-11 is being rebuild, not in perfect identical appearance to the original, but very close in look and feel and spirit. This space was not abandoned or changed (other than more contemporary improvements) in order to create something completely different in anther location.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 03:31 AM   #1972
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Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Some interior shots of Rampische Straße 29, courtesy of neumarkt-dresden.de









Dorm room:









Courtyard:















IMO the best reconstruction to date, particularly because of the lime plaster (?) they've used. It gives the place sort of an instant patina.

have you details about the price of a appartment?
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Old November 11th, 2010, 03:31 AM   #1973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLAG View Post
What I do not understand of this discussion is the question if it is fake or not. Why this obsessed idea that you cannot build something new in an old style because then it is a fake? People like the style, people like details and ornaments, and people like it when the building follow the street. It is an old concept that has worked before so why not do things that people perceive as beautiful? Fake or not fake is irrelevant. Does it look good or not I think is much more relevant and the reconstruction of Dresden certainly looks good.

Of course some reconstructions are perhaps not perfect, but I think that that could also be said about some new modern buildings, and that doesn’t stop us from building new buildings.
This is so true!
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Old November 11th, 2010, 06:19 AM   #1974
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have you details about the price of a appartment?
One of the interior photos shows a bed and labeled "dorm room". I thought 29 Ramische was created as professional offices.

is it going to be a furnished rental for long term leases as apartments?
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Old November 11th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #1975
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Apparently the upper floors will be used as dorm rooms for students from the Carl Maria von Weber Academy of Music and some offices. So it's probably not possible to get in there as a mere mortal.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 11:33 AM   #1976
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Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com
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Old November 11th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #1977
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basteln die die Ornamente aus Styropor zusammen und putzen dann drüber???
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Old November 11th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #1978
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Man nennt das Stuck!
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Old November 13th, 2010, 02:54 PM   #1979
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Quartier VIII:











Source:http://www.bausituation-dresden.com
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Old November 14th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #1980
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^ Fantastisch!!
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