Terminal 5 | Heathrow Airport | London | Completed

[Langur]

^ There's nothing on the Ultra website that contradicts that. It says it will open in summer 2011. Well that's now, and I can tell you that it's very much open. Go there and see for yourself.

[stimarco]

snip

[HollyBlack]

Originally Posted by stimarco

You've never worked in software development, have you? It's still more art than science—not least because the tools available are still mostly stuck in the 1970s. ...
What were you expecting? A concert with fireworks, and film at 11? It's a bloody people mover, not a high-speed railway!

Actually, I did work in software development back in the 1960s. Except that we called it computer programming back then. IBM-1401 and 7090s, the model of computer that took men to the moon.

I am not denying that the PRT is, in fact, open. I am saying that the manufacturer of the system and the airport authority say that it is still in trials. I am expecting either the manufacturer or the airport authority to announce that it is open when it is, indeed, fully open. Until that happens anyone is justified in saying it is not fully open.

The most recent statement from the manufacturer says, in part,
"In summer 2011 the first public ULTra system — which is also the first commercial PRT system anywhere in the world — will open at London’s Heathrow Airport. " [emphasis was added]

The most recent statement from the airport authority says, in part,
"Heathrow will host the world’s first commercial application of PRT in 2011." [emphasis was added]

[Langur]

Photos from my ride on Sunday:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


*Edit* photo links fixed....

[Davodavo]

Originally Posted by Langur

Photos from my ride on Sunday:

I can't see a thing:

Oops... there's nothing to see here. Either you do not have access to these photos, or they don't exist at this web address. Please contact the owner directly to gain access.

That's exactly what I'm doing, lol.

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by HollyBlack

Actually, I did work in software development back in the 1960s. Except that we called it computer programming back then. IBM-1401 and 7090s, the model of computer that took men to the moon.

I am not denying that the PRT is, in fact, open. I am saying that the manufacturer of the system and the airport authority say that it is still in trials. I am expecting either the manufacturer or the airport authority to announce that it is open when it is, indeed, fully open. Until that happens anyone is justified in saying it is not fully open.

The most recent statement from the manufacturer says, in part,
"In summer 2011 the first public ULTra system — which is also the first commercial PRT system anywhere in the world — will open at London’s Heathrow Airport. " [emphasis was added]

The most recent statement from the airport authority says, in part,
"Heathrow will host the world’s first commercial application of PRT in 2011." [emphasis was added]

Well at the end of the day, it seems this systems roll out is following the path of a software company. This is in effect a Beta system, It takes Google years sometimes remove the Beta tag from its products. I suppose BAA want to rack up a year or two of running it before declaring it a success .

After they see how it beds down and what it's real maintenance costs are, hopefully we will see it expand.

If they do expand it I wonder how far they will take it. The easiest to serve are T5 and T4 and the Cargo Village.

Serving the CTA will be harder. I know Ultra have proposed converting one of the Taxi tunnels to pod tunnel, in fact they propose to squeeze four stacked tracks in there! While it physically fits, I'm not sure it's a good idea. If there is a breakdown or god forbid a fire then escape would be impossible. Not only would there be no escape path there would not be the room to stand up!

Now, either they just put two tracks in there, or they close both tax tunnels, or they build a new tunnel.

A new tunnel is expensive, but closing the taxi tunnel would reduce road space, and emergency alternatives.

I suspect nothing will happen until Terminal 2 is finished and the old terminal 1 demolished.

Hopefully they will complete the extend the auto shuttle from Terminal 5 to T3 and Hopefully T2 and T4. Not only would it improve connection times at the airport but would also allow them to consider extending the pods as well at the same time.

[HollyBlack]

The point is that while it is still "in trials" sales will be hard to come by. Fully open they would be less hard. For example, Liverpool airport needs something like a PRT but could not afford any faux pas. If Heathrow airport does not have the confidence to say it is no longer "in trials" then others are less likely to think they can have confidence in it either.

The alternative to a formal announcement of opening, as an expression of confidence in the system, would be to place it in revenue service. That is to say to charge for rides at time of use instead of giving them away free.

[stimarco]

plinge

[Langur]

Originally Posted by HollyBlack

The point is that while it is still "in trials" sales will be hard to come by.

Why do you keep repeating this fallacy? It's not "in trials". It's in full customer service!! The reasons BAA don't want to publicise it are to avoid people flocking there to ride it for fun, and also unhappy memories of the last time they made a song and a dance about a new opening (ie the opening of T5 itself).

[steveraneyC21]

From ULTra PRT newsletter:
http://www.ultraprt.com/news/95/149/...eigh-guideway/

1. Heathrow ULTra system: awesome, cool, sci-fi, fast, fantastic

On April 18, 2011, Terminal 5 (T5) Business Car Park passengers started using the Heathrow Pod. In the weeks that followed, operating hours were increased, with the system operating a (22 hour) full service from May 7. As of August 21, approximately 63,000 passenger trips had been completed. The system currently carries about 800 passengers per day, and BAA has withdrawn the bus service from this car park, ensuring all passengers travel to and from T5 by the Heathrow Pod. The five minute ride has been described as "futuristic", "rapid" and "a transport revelation."

"You will see from the Twitter quotes below that the Heathrow Pod has certainly proved popular with our customers. Passenger numbers continue to rise, the system is running at its full service and it's fast becoming an established member of the Heathrow transport network. The testing and refining of the service undertaken, especially over the last year, has paid off and we have a service we are proud of and our customers love." Max Vialou-Clark, BAA Retail Services Director.

Twitter and Youtube:
* "I love these things. Best airport transfer devices ever"
* "Awesome sci-fi system"
* "Landed and used the very cool #heathrowpod . and they're even better to use - quicker, easier and greener than the buses to/from the car park"
* "I am in a pod. A bit like the cab on Total Recall without the mad driver! ... FAST though! ... Almost like a real life scalextric ;-)"
* "Geek transportation par excellence!"
* "Soooo cool!! Addicting!!"
* "Fantastic. Epochal. Could not be more excited. First rate. Staff could not have been friendlier."
* 30-second essence: http://youtu.be/iAkqNULN9eY
* Full five-minute ride: http://youtu.be/yU972ULVTeU

[ Globe and Mail: http://tinyurl.com/3egrzfw ] [ NY Times: http://tinyurl.com/3enctby ]

[Angle42]

I guess that this is the explanation and confirmation that you have been seeking HollyBlack

Originally Posted by steveraneyC21

From ULTra PRT newsletter:
http://www.ultraprt.com/news/95/149/...eigh-guideway/

... As of August 21, approximately 63,000 passenger trips had been completed. The system currently carries about 800 passengers per day, and BAA has withdrawn the bus service from this car park, ensuring all passengers travel to and from T5 by the Heathrow Pod. ...

The testing and refining of the service undertaken, especially over the last year, has paid off and we have a service we are proud of and our customers love." Max Vialou-Clark, BAA Retail Services Director...

[-james-]

The pod system was really good, I only paid slightly more than the usual parking price for business parking but at the normal price it is hard to see how it is worth twice the price.

[lasdun]

Originally Posted by -james-

The pod system was really good, I only paid slightly more than the usual parking price for business parking but at the normal price it is hard to see how it is worth twice the price.

That's why it's business parking - marginally more convenient service for a much higher price, that your expences pay for. Like first class on Hex, this isn't for people who are spending their own money.

[potto]

so where else could we see this extended? Could it actually link up to the rest of Londons transport system, somehow reduce Heathrow load on the M25? Maybe even travel around the M25 and its hinterlands, linking places that currently do not warrant a train station? How about the congested Westway and Euston road, linking Kings Cross with Paddington? I am surprised by the dulled enthusiasm, imagine this was the 1950s or 1960s we would have TV broadcasts proudly showing us the potential future!

[iranair777]

Originally Posted by potto

so where else could we see this extended? Could it actually link up to the rest of Londons transport system, somehow reduce Heathrow load on the M25? Maybe even travel around the M25 and its hinterlands, linking places that currently do not warrant a train station? How about the congested Westway and Euston road, linking Kings Cross with Paddington? I am surprised by the dulled enthusiasm, imagine this was the 1950s or 1960s we would have TV broadcasts proudly showing us the potential future!

Excellent Idea as long as the funding is in place. If something like this is created, it wouldn't be just a 'from here to there' link but has to be expanded to multiple destinations. I really don't know if It will work in central london as the streets are small enough, but if they can build it above current A roads such as the A40 or A4 to link up multiple areas of london (probably heathrow if required, but seems like a long journey) and be priced reasonably, it will succeed. The key thing holding this back is funding and space.

[*Nurse*]

Originally Posted by potto

so where else could we see this extended? Could it actually link up to the rest of Londons transport system, somehow reduce Heathrow load on the M25? Maybe even travel around the M25 and its hinterlands, linking places that currently do not warrant a train station? How about the congested Westway and Euston road, linking Kings Cross with Paddington? I am surprised by the dulled enthusiasm, imagine this was the 1950s or 1960s we would have TV broadcasts proudly showing us the potential future!

We have things that can do this, they are called cars. They don't even need much public funding. Indeed they are so useful, people will just buy their own.

[potto]

why do we have doctors?

[ill tonkso]

Doctors? Somewhat comparing apples and rollercoasters there Potto. As for serious expansion, I would suggest the Hotels that litter the area before anywhere else. Also, expansion to the other side of the M25 along the M4 corridor to relieve traffic on that junction would be decent.

[Rational Plan]

Now that the third runway is on the back burner, we shall see if BAA lose interest in expanding the system. The real impetus for this was to reduce emissions and congestion so that a third runway could be built.

On the other with BAA losing Gatwick and now Stansted it may be worried about competition and seek to actually improve the passenger experience.

Hopefully we will see it expanded to the other car parks, car rental agencies and the hotels. It would reduce the number of shuttles crowding around the terminals and the amount of time you had to wait.

The system can not cover minor destinations unless they are between major destinations. Though the system is scalable it still has capital costs for the track so it can't be expanded every where. As far as Heathrow is concerned it can easily cover the car park (both staff and public) But I'm not sure about the hotels as many of their buses have charges.

[potto]

surely the technology is there for such vehicles to exist without concrete guide ways? Ive seen vehicles follow painted lines before. Maybe that could be a future goal to see it really push into other areas.