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Old February 8th, 2011, 07:57 PM   #461
Verso
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There is an urban myth that motor insurance companies will not cover driving around the Étoile, which is not strictly true. Insurance companies generally cover motor accidents only on the Étoile under a knock-for-knock agreement[1], whereby each insurance company will pay for losses by its own policyholder, provided that the other party's insurance company agrees to do the same for the other policyholder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_C...Insurance_Myth
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Old February 10th, 2011, 03:49 AM   #462
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Some USA states require all auto insurance be issued on that basis, called 'no fault' insurance, where your company covers you regardless of fault. Yes, it rewards bad drivers in old wrecky cars while punishing good ones in nice cars.

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Old February 10th, 2011, 09:15 PM   #463
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How that looks on ground level:


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Old February 11th, 2011, 11:22 AM   #464
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I don't see what's so strange about this. Incoming traffic has right of way, because a 10 lane roundabout would never work, all those big avenues would be blocked up and cars could never ever enter the roundabout.
As for the chaotic goings on inside the roundabout: its not really dangerous as everybody is going at approx the same speed: very slow, so its just like on those videos from India and other countries with no traffic rules, where everybody knows there's no rules so they all drive at the same low speed and expect cars from every direction at all times. A lot like a person moving in a crowd of people: you don't bump into everybody when you're in the mall, do you?
Its much more dangerous when you expect people to follow rules and someone doesn't. E.g.: you fly through the green light with 80 km/h because you expect crossing traffic to stop at their red light. If someone doesn't, you're ****ed.
but since they all know this is a special place with no rules (well, not normal rules anyway) they don't crash.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #465
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Quote:
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As for the chaotic goings on inside the roundabout: its not really dangerous as everybody is going at approx the same speed: very slow, so its just like on those videos from India and other countries with no traffic rules, where everybody knows there's no rules so they all drive at the same low speed and expect cars from every direction at all times. A lot like a person moving in a crowd of people: you don't bump into everybody when you're in the mall, do you?
Apparently, if insurance companies had to establish rules for that particular road, it's not like you say...
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Old February 11th, 2011, 11:43 AM   #466
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well, majority of people don't crash, do they? those rules are for people who would crash on a straight road with no traffic, and because insurance companies do anything they can not to pay.
i was talking about the general phenomenon of this big roundabout
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Old February 11th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #467
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But you have to admit that those videos look really absurd... there has to be a better way to organize that spot.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 12:34 PM   #468
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they look absurd, sure. but that's because its a ten lane roundabout, it wasn't built for todays traffic. so they let cars into the roundabout because otherwise the avenues would be blocked. you can get inside then you have to work your way through. other option would be traffic lights (which are basicly what they do with multi-lane roundabouts elsewhere), but obviously paris has traffic planning experts who have thought of that option but decided not to use it. they must have a concluded that would cause more jams. maybe they had to choose between having chaos inside the circle as opposed to having jams everywhere else.

anyway that's why i referred to countries like India, or people walking in a crowd i think it works a bit like that.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 01:48 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
But you have to admit that those videos look really absurd... there has to be a better way to organize that spot.
I think it's rather impossible. Such a wide roundabout simply can't work as an ordinary roundabout. Traffic lights would probably back up traffic too much.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 01:50 PM   #470
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Something like the English magic roundabout?
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Old February 11th, 2011, 02:21 PM   #471
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But you have to admit that those videos look really absurd... there has to be a better way to organize that spot.




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Old February 11th, 2011, 02:37 PM   #472
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Imagine Arc de Triomphe in the middle
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Old February 11th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #473
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I can imagine the Tour Eiffel in the middle of it... the interchange-monstre would be the nicest thing
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Old February 11th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #474
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Something like the English magic roundabout?
There's way too much traffic for that insanity. And again you don't have right of way in the middle roundabout.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #475
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Quote:
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I can imagine the Tour Eiffel in the middle of it... the interchange-monstre would be the nicest thing
Already visioned something for that: http://www.architectenweb.nl/aweb/pr...t.asp?PID=1199 http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=7559
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Old February 12th, 2011, 06:07 AM   #476
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There already is a bypass tunnel under the Arc de Triomphe for through traffic in one direction. And besides, the Parisians are accustomed to it, so there really isn't a problem there.

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Old May 19th, 2011, 02:20 PM   #477
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Old May 19th, 2011, 03:40 PM   #478
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This thread got me thinking about why it is that some countries use roundabouts all over the place and others only rarely.

In the UK they are all over the place, on everything from residential streets to motorway interchanges.

Apart from reasons of space, is this purely a cultural thing? Obviously roundabouts have their advantages and disadvantages, is it simply a case that the British and other roundabout-lovers give more weight to advantages of the roundabout and less weight to the disadvantages compared with non-roundabout loving countries?

I came across this document from the South African National Road Authority (NRA) outlining its reasons for rejecting roundabouts (it also deals with what it considers appropriate for different ADT conditions, basically unsignalised intersection > signalised intersection > grade separation).

http://www.nra.co.za/content/XXX0014.pdf

1.6 In certain public meetings associated with this project, the suggestion has been made that instead of an expensive grade separated interchange should not a roundabout intersection arrangement be considered at existing “problematic” at grade intersections. Although roundabouts are considered an appropriate and effective traffic control measure for many urban intersection conditions, they are not considered an appropriate intersection treatment on the national route network for the following reasons:
• It is NRA policy to provide, where appropriate and cost effective, a free flow
(uninterrupted flow) situation along the national road network. For national
roads with low traffic volumes, this is achieved via at-grade unsignalised
intersection and for high volume traffic sections this is achieved by grade
separate solutions. A roundabout by definition is not a free flow traffic
arrangement, since approaching traffic must yield to / merge with traffic
already on the roundabout.

• A roundabout has a similar traffic capacity to a signalized intersection and
therefore, as traffic volumes increase, so will vehicle delays eventually
requiring a grade separate interchange type solution

• Roundabouts require fairly flat areas and good approach visibility to ensure
satisfactory road operations and safety characteristics. The rugged
topography on many sections of the national road, particularly between Sir
Lowry’s Pass and Houwhoek make the roundabout an expensive interim
solution with built-in capacity constraints.

• The speed reduction effect of national road traffic passing around the
roundabout, particularly in peak periods when queues of vehicles will form
on the approaches to the roundabout, is considered an undesirable safety
hazard.
Thus, in summary the NRA have taken the view that where traffic volumes
warrant it, the preferred intersection treatment is a grade separated interchange in terms of traffic operations and road safety criteria.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed110220 View Post
Link leads to someone's E-Mail response for a ratepayer's association.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 05:42 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
Link leads to someone's E-Mail response for a ratepayer's association.
If you scroll down quite a few pages the part I was referring to can be found, it's entitled:

APPENDIX J
National Road Network:
Planning and Policy Consideration

I'm not sure why it has been buried away like this, but these things to do with planning etc in SA are difficult to find online.
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