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Old September 14th, 2015, 12:07 PM   #961
keokiracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedeon View Post
How can allowing cars to pass you (and potentially hit you when they leave and you don't) be more safe than this?

Drivers are notorious at not checking blind corners when exiting roundabouts. Driving in the middle of the lane on small roundabouts is much safer. It's not like I'm slower than cars, quite the opposite.
Problem is that you are looking at this from an - I presume - British or US point of view (given that you mention you're faster than cars). Dutch drivers are a lot more used to cyclists and know when and how to look. We've pretty much all cycled a lot in our lives so we know what to do when. That includes on roundabouts with a regular cyclelane on the side. It's not the UK where a lot of people only look for things bigger than a Mini Cooper when approaching a roundabout.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 12:12 PM   #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Problem is that you are looking at this from an - I presume - British or US point of view (given that you mention you're faster than cars). Dutch drivers are a lot more used to cyclists and know when and how to look. We've pretty much all cycled a lot in our lives so we know what to do when. That includes on roundabouts with a regular cyclelane on the side. It's not the UK where a lot of people only look for things bigger than a Mini Cooper when approaching a roundabout.
I am from Croatia.

And still think it's safer just to take the lane. I've found it to be the safest approach (we don't have cycle lanes on roundabouts anyway).

From the document I posted earlier:

Quote:
Avoid adding a roundabout cycle lane.

Several studies have shown that this is more dangerous than even no roundabout at all.2 The cycle lane creates a false impression of safety. In reality, it adds another lane and doubles the number of conflict points. Cars can overtake cyclists and cut in front of them. Moreover, a cycle lane forces cyclists to the edge: this creates the impression they are exiting the roundabout even when still continuing. Without a cycle lane, the cyclist weaves between cars in the middle of the roundabout lane.

Last edited by Gedeon; September 14th, 2015 at 12:20 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 12:55 AM   #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I know that there is an open dispute about the terminology.

Anyway, the word "roundabout" is much older than a specification of a "modern roundabout" (yield-at-entry, etc). The word "roundabout" dates back to early 20th century when the first such junctions were built in the UK. However, the yield-at-entry rule was declared in the UK no earlier than in 1966. Therefore, I would use the "roundabout" as a generic term, and follow the US Federal terminology "modern roundabout" when the yield-at-entry rule is a relevant within the context of the discussion.

(BTW, the yield-at-entry is not the only qualifying factor in the US. There are certain rules related to geometry, too.)

It is good to understand that the US Federal term is "modern roundabout" to distinguish it from the generic term. There are various interpretations of the terminology around the World, and even across the US states. For instance, there is no such term as "traffic circle" in the official language of the UK Department of Transport.

That is why I tend to avoid treating the US federal terminology as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Modern roundabouts in the UK have different designs to Roundabouts designed pre 1986. This has nothing to do with yield on entry rules - both generally involve yeilding to traffic on the roundabout.

The differences are in the geometery. Approach deflections and entry angles are much tighter on modern roundabouts. In theory this is to slow traffic down so that its entry path has to be curved, not straight. In practice a car will take the racing line. This is dangerous on roundabouts with multi-lane entries if the driver is not aware of other cars in neighbouring lanes that it drifts into. I've had countless near misses by numptys who will not stay in lane because they are trying to take a racing line across the roundabout.

I prefer roundabuts to be designed with the approach road having kink or deflection approching the yield line with the lanes pointing traffic in a direct line into the correct lane on the roundabout.

The map example on the A14 is a pre 1986 design. Notice the kink and the straight entry path:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1...a938e193850340

Later section of the A14 with a roundabout interchange that has sharper entry angles:

https://goo.gl/maps/h0bsD"]http://ht....gl/maps/h0bsD


This example shows a simple roundabout from about the 1970s. Entry to the roundabout is tangential. The markings are faded but priority is to traffic on the roundabout:

https://goo.gl/maps/VgDTt


Compare it to this new roundabout under construction in Corby Northants. Note the horrible entry angles and how they would encourage drivers to take a racing line across lanes on the roundabout:

https://goo.gl/maps/N9aWL
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Old September 16th, 2015, 11:56 PM   #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirfreelancealot View Post
Modern roundabouts in the UK have different designs to Roundabouts designed pre 1986. This has nothing to do with yield on entry rules - both generally involve yeilding to traffic on the roundabout.

The differences are in the geometery. Approach deflections and entry angles are much tighter on modern roundabouts. In theory this is to slow traffic down so that its entry path has to be curved, not straight. In practice a car will take the racing line. This is dangerous on roundabouts with multi-lane entries if the driver is not aware of other cars in neighbouring lanes that it drifts into. I've had countless near misses by numptys who will not stay in lane because they are trying to take a racing line across the roundabout.

I prefer roundabuts to be designed with the approach road having kink or deflection approching the yield line with the lanes pointing traffic in a direct line into the correct lane on the roundabout.

The map example on the A14 is a pre 1986 design. Notice the kink and the straight entry path:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1...a938e193850340

Later section of the A14 with a roundabout interchange that has sharper entry angles:

https://goo.gl/maps/h0bsD"]http://ht....gl/maps/h0bsD


This example shows a simple roundabout from about the 1970s. Entry to the roundabout is tangential. The markings are faded but priority is to traffic on the roundabout:

https://goo.gl/maps/VgDTt


Compare it to this new roundabout under construction in Corby Northants. Note the horrible entry angles and how they would encourage drivers to take a racing line across lanes on the roundabout:

https://goo.gl/maps/N9aWL
The basic idea of the modern roundabout is to calm down the traffic flow. Multi-lane roundabouts are trade-offs between this target and the throughput of the junction. The Dutch turbo roundabout potentially relieves the pain of multi-lane roundabouts by making it possible to take the roundabout without changing lanes while circulating. This type is a trade-off, too: Entering at the innermost lanes may turn painful, because it involves crossing several lanes.

There are several very large roundabouts in Sweden like this one in Uppsala:

https://www.google.fi/maps/@59.84469...7i13312!8i6656

I not believe that such a construction will calm down the traffic at all. It is possible to enter the roundabout at far too high speed.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 11:48 AM   #965
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A roundabout in Åtvidaberg, Sweden. Here traffic is yet sparse but this roundabout is built to meet a possibly greater traffic flow in the future. You might think that there are recently planted trees in the middle of the roundabout, but those are some funny looking doghead figures. Roundabout embellishment is a common topic in Sweden.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 01:57 PM   #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post

A roundabout in Åtvidaberg, Sweden. Here traffic is yet sparse but this roundabout is built to meet a possibly greater traffic flow in the future. You might think that there are recently planted trees in the middle of the roundabout, but those are some funny looking doghead figures. Roundabout embellishment is a common topic in Sweden.
This is one of my favorite decorations in Finland:

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Old October 29th, 2015, 07:27 PM   #967
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Roundabout with 6 exit lanes in Haarlem, Netherlands.

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Old November 3rd, 2015, 05:37 PM   #968
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Been there! I admired all that lanes as an 8-year-old
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 08:37 PM   #969
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This is the biggest intersection in the city of Ruse, Bulgaria.


Because of increasing traffic and danger for pedestrians and cyclists it is now in the final phase of reconstruction and will look like this when complete.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 01:42 AM   #970
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I really love that roundabout, right turns don't needs to enter roundabout for nothing
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Old November 4th, 2015, 01:03 PM   #971
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but there are still Stop-lines for right turns..
maybe it is just because it is a render. This could be a turbo-roundabout if there is a lot of traffic.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 03:24 PM   #972
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I think those stop-lines will be there but people will just slow down instead of stop. It would have been even better if the right turn was completely separated, that is true.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 03:46 PM   #973
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Eight roundabouts near the I-41 / WIS-29 interchange in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Roundabouts were long a rarity in the U.S., but some jurisdictions have really embraced them.





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Old November 4th, 2015, 10:31 PM   #974
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I like these turbo-roundabouts -to me they look a lot safer and more intuitive than traditional multi-lane roundabouts. It's like navigating a conventional intersection.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 02:15 PM   #975
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Eco-roundabout:

https://goo.gl/maps/hYh2jaEtkbE2
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Old November 24th, 2015, 01:41 AM   #976
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A brand new medium-sized roundabout in Ruse, Bulgaria

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Old November 28th, 2015, 11:30 AM   #977
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This is the design of a five-way turbo roundabout in the Dutch city of Goes. The existing four-way multilane roundabout will be upgraded next year.

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Old December 14th, 2015, 10:10 PM   #978
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Our brand new roundabout in Ruse, Bulgaria after about a year in reconstruction. Opening is tomorrow!

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Old December 21st, 2015, 01:30 AM   #979
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In Hasselt Belgium they replaced a 2 lane roundabout on the N80 with a 3 lane intersection few months ago. Previously the delay was like 15 minutes because the roundabout wasn't able to handle the traffic today there are next to no traffic jams any longer.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 06:55 PM   #980
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I wonder if something like that could work in my hometown.

This roundabout is the main access to the city center and it's not uncommon to find queues at certain hours. Sometimes the queues are so long that the exit lanes of the motorway get blocked and some cars have to wait on the shoulder and/or the right lane. Probably a well designed intersection with traffic lights could fix the problem?

AADTs are ~54k for the motorway (E-W) and ~24k for the N-S dual carriageway (N-S).

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