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Old March 22nd, 2006, 01:19 AM   #201
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We need to wait for this year's figures to come out before we can definitively say that this is the case (although it likely is).
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 02:36 AM   #202
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Yes, we cannot know this until 2007, when figures of 2006 will be published.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 02:41 AM   #203
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Not to mention that this was posted in January as well. Are we going to have one of these updates every month? Why not just wait until official yearly data to proclaim what is seemingly inevitable: Barajas surpassing Schipol.

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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:01 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
Not to mention that this was posted in January as well. Are we going to have one of these updates every month?

I agree
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:27 AM   #205
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Madrid Barajas surpass Amsterdam Schiphol in 218, 395 passengers in February

Madrid Barajas Airport MAD surpass AGAIN Amsterdam Schiphol Airport AMS in the month of february in 218, 395 passengers, consolidating MAD as the new 4rd busiest airport in Europe. In january already surpassed AMS on 92, 519 passengers.

This numbers were archived even with the inaguration of Barajas new Terminal 4, on february 5, that diverted lot of passengers to other transport modes to avoid possible inagurational problems, that didn't materialize.

After surpassing Schiphol, Barajas is reducing the gap with Frankfurt FRA Airport to 334, 251 passengers in february 2006, from 547,586 in february 2005. Frankfurt is registering stagnated growth since years ago because of capacity issues, that have forced Lufthansa to divert traffic to Munich, in contrast the closest mayor airport to Barajas, is at 600 kilometers in Barcelona, that because it's geographic location cannot server as hub for Spain .

Despite the inaguration of Terminal 4 , Barajas will only archieve full capacity in October 2006, when the new runaways enter full capacity of 120 operations/hour versus 84 actually. Airlines are desperate for obtaining slots since years ago.

Before 2010 Madrid Barajas will surpass Frankfurt airport to become 3rd busiest european airport.

January 2006

MAD Barajas......3, 124,219......+8.5 %

AMS Schiphol.....3, 031,700.....+2.3%

MAD - AMS = 92, 519


February 2006

MAD Barajas......3, 097,995......+7.3 %

AMS Schiphol.....2, 879,600.....+1.5%

MAD - AMS = 218, 395


Jan+Feb 2006

MAD Barajas......6, 155,919

AMS Schiphol.....5, 911,300

MAD - AMS = 244,619


MAD figures: http://www14.aena.es/csee/ccurl/PROD200602.pdf
AMS figures: http://hugin.info/135966/R/1038702/168612.pdf
FRA figures: http://www.fraport.com/cms/[email protected]


According to Eurostat ( European Union Statistical Office ) Spain ranked as 3rd country in Europe regarding air passanger numbers only exceed by the UK and almost as much as Germany ( despite been Germany more than twice in Population ,and have higher gdp per capita ) . Spain easily surpass France and Italy .


Eurostat Document here :
http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/cache...-06-002-EN.PDF

Table 1 , describes air passenger numbers by country .


1 ---- UK------------ 192 , 307,000
2 ---- GERMANY------ 135, 850,000
3 ---- SPAIN--------- 129, 791,000
4 ---- FRANCE-------- 102, 432,000
5 ---- ITALY---------- 81, 630,000
6 ---- HOLLAND------- 44,494,000


Table 5 , describes country to country flows in 2004


1) SPAIN - UK-----------33, 586, 000
2) SPAIN - GERMANY----19,309,000
3) UK - FRANCE----------11,115,000

AENA Spanish Airport public entity controling almost all the Spanish
Airports and Air Navigation have just published 2005 statistics .

Arrivals + Departures


TOTAL PASSANGERS 2005 ........ 181, 065, 860
Increase over 2004 .............................. 9 %


Movements 2005 .................. 2, 193, 873
Increase over 2004 .......................... 6,7 %


AIRPORT ...............................PASSENGERS


MADRID ............................... 41, 963, 197
BARCELONA .......................... 27, 131, 448
MALLORCA ............................ 21, 242, 295
MALAGA .............................. 12, 669, 187
CANARIA ............................... 9, 827, 151
ALICANTE .............................. 8, 796, 321
TENERIFE SUR ........................ 8, 631, 776

HISTORICAL ANNUAL PASSENGERS NUMBERS IN SPAIN


2002 ................................. 143, 092, 996
2003 ................................. 153, 826, 342
2004 ................................. 166, 146, 198
2005 ................................. 181, 065, 860


NEW BARAJAS ( T1,T2,T3,T4,T4S):
940,000 square meters (10 Million sq feets) TERMINAL AREA
18,000 Passengers/hour
70 Millions passengers year Nominal capacity .
120 Operations/hour
104 JETBRIDGES
21, 800 parking slots


By comparison London Heathrow 360,000 sq meters , Atlanta (Terminal
Area plus Concourses T, A, B, C, D, and E) 530,000 sq meters

Arquitect's Website
http://www.richardrogers.co.uk/rende...,4,24,296,1035
http://www.richardrogers.co.uk/rende...Ds=1,6,12,1189
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:32 AM   #206
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Spain's passenger count is growing incredibly!!
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 04:19 AM   #207
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Madrid Barajas surpass Amsterdam Schiphol in 218, 395 passengers in February

Madrid Barajas Airport MAD surpass AGAIN Amsterdam Schiphol Airport AMS in the month of february in 218, 395 passengers, consolidating MAD as the new 4rd busiest airport in Europe. In january already surpassed AMS on 92, 519 passengers.

This numbers were archived even with the inaguration of Barajas new Terminal 4, on february 5, that diverted lot of passengers to other transport modes to avoid possible inagurational problems, that didn't materialize.

After surpassing Schiphol, Barajas is reducing the gap with Frankfurt FRA Airport to 334, 251 passengers in february 2006, from 547,586 in february 2005. Frankfurt is registering stagnated growth since years ago because of capacity issues, that have forced Lufthansa to divert traffic to Munich, in contrast the closest mayor airport to Barajas, is at 600 kilometers in Barcelona, that because it's geographic location cannot server as hub for Spain .

Despite the inaguration of Terminal 4 , Barajas will only archieve full capacity in October 2006, when the new runaways enter full capacity of 120 operations/hour versus 84 actually. Airlines are desperate for obtaining slots since years ago.

Before 2010 Madrid Barajas will surpass Frankfurt airport to become 3rd busiest european airport.

January 2006

MAD Barajas......3, 124,219......+8.5 %

AMS Schiphol.....3, 031,700.....+2.3%

MAD - AMS = 92, 519


February 2006

MAD Barajas......3, 097,995......+7.3 %

AMS Schiphol.....2, 879,600.....+1.5%

MAD - AMS = 218, 395


Jan+Feb 2006

MAD Barajas......6, 155,919

AMS Schiphol.....5, 911,300

MAD - AMS = 244,619


MAD figures: http://www14.aena.es/csee/ccurl/PROD200602.pdf
AMS figures: http://hugin.info/135966/R/1038702/168612.pdf
FRA figures: http://www.fraport.com/cms/[email protected]


According to Eurostat ( European Union Statistical Office ) Spain ranked as 3rd country in Europe regarding air passanger numbers only exceed by the UK and almost as much as Germany ( despite been Germany more than twice in Population ,and have higher gdp per capita ) . Spain easily surpass France and Italy .


Eurostat Document here :
http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/cache...-06-002-EN.PDF

Table 1 , describes air passenger numbers by country .


1 ---- UK------------ 192 , 307,000
2 ---- GERMANY------ 135, 850,000
3 ---- SPAIN--------- 129, 791,000
4 ---- FRANCE-------- 102, 432,000
5 ---- ITALY---------- 81, 630,000
6 ---- HOLLAND------- 44,494,000


Table 5 , describes country to country flows in 2004


1) SPAIN - UK-----------33, 586, 000
2) SPAIN - GERMANY----19,309,000
3) UK - FRANCE----------11,115,000

AENA Spanish Airport public entity controling almost all the Spanish
Airports and Air Navigation have just published 2005 statistics .

Arrivals + Departures


TOTAL PASSANGERS 2005 ........ 181, 065, 860
Increase over 2004 .............................. 9 %


Movements 2005 .................. 2, 193, 873
Increase over 2004 .......................... 6,7 %


AIRPORT ...............................PASSENGERS


MADRID ............................... 41, 963, 197
BARCELONA .......................... 27, 131, 448
MALLORCA ............................ 21, 242, 295
MALAGA .............................. 12, 669, 187
CANARIA ............................... 9, 827, 151
ALICANTE .............................. 8, 796, 321
TENERIFE SUR ........................ 8, 631, 776

HISTORICAL ANNUAL PASSENGERS NUMBERS IN SPAIN


2002 ................................. 143, 092, 996
2003 ................................. 153, 826, 342
2004 ................................. 166, 146, 198
2005 ................................. 181, 065, 860


NEW BARAJAS ( T1,T2,T3,T4,T4S):
940,000 square meters (10 Million sq feets) TERMINAL AREA
18,000 Passengers/hour
70 Millions passengers year Nominal capacity .
120 Operations/hour
104 JETBRIDGES
21, 800 parking slots


By comparison London Heathrow 360,000 sq meters , Atlanta (Terminal
Area plus Concourses T, A, B, C, D, and E) 530,000 sq meters

Arquitect's Website
http://www.richardrogers.co.uk/rende...,4,24,296,1035
http://www.richardrogers.co.uk/rende...Ds=1,6,12,1189
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 04:20 AM   #208
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Let's wait untill the year is over before we make such claims shall we?

btw, this is in the wrong forum...
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 04:25 AM   #209
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How many forums DID he spam with this "news?"

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Old March 22nd, 2006, 04:36 AM   #210
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I saw at least 3!
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 04:40 AM   #211
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I count 8.

Oh great, I moved it to a forum which already had this thread...

Close please!
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 05:30 AM   #212
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And this is a US urban issue........ how?
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 08:32 AM   #213
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that's cool.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 11:35 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
Not to mention that this was posted in January as well. Are we going to have one of these updates every month?


let's hope we won't find the anthem playing and the flag waving with each "Monthly breefing"...LOL!
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 02:31 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
1 ---- UK------------ 192 , 307,000
2 ---- GERMANY------ 135, 850,000
3 ---- SPAIN--------- 129, 791,000
4 ---- FRANCE-------- 102, 432,000
5 ---- ITALY---------- 81, 630,000
6 ---- HOLLAND------- 44,494,000
These figures are seriously out of date. For exaple UK aviation is now at 230 million per year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
NEW BARAJAS ( T1,T2,T3,T4,T4S):
940,000 square meters (10 Million sq feets)..... By comparison London Heathrow 360,000 sq meters, Atlanta (Terminal
Area plus Concourses T, A, B, C, D, and E) 530,000 sq meters
Yes Madrid Barajas T4 is huge..... but Heathrow Terminal 5, designed by the same architect (Richard Rogers), will open soon and has more floor space than all the other Heathrow Terminals combined. It will almost immediately be followed by the equally huge Heathrow East project to replace the older terminals to a design by Norman Foster. In any case Heathrow now accounts for less than half of London's air traffic.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:06 PM   #216
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Monkey, if you should have read the EUROSTAT document , you woulf find that those figures correspond to 2004.

Also you must take into account that the statistical criteria of EUROSTAT differs from both AENA and BAA criteria . EUROSTAT lower the number .

Regarding LHR T5 i have read that it will be finished on schedule in March 2008 , but I have a cuestion . As all we know MAD T4 building was finished in February 2004 ( and inagurated) , but could only enter service 2 years after that , because it was necesary to intall all the equipment , SATE ,etc,etc .. , and this past february 5 it was inagurated without been finished ! . Lots of additional equipment is been installed now .
Enter into full service terminal of the magnitude of both MAD T4, LHR T5 it's a LONG and costly process . I doubt in March 2008 LHR T5 could enter service.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:06 PM   #217
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interesting
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:28 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
Monkey, if you should have read the EUROSTAT document , you woulf find that those figures correspond to 2004.

Also you must take into account that the statistical criteria of EUROSTAT differs from both AENA and BAA criteria . EUROSTAT lower the number.
My stats are from the CAA - not BAA or any commerical body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
Regarding LHR T5 i have read that it will be finished on schedule in March 2008 , but I have a cuestion . As all we know MAD T4 building was finished in February 2004 ( and inagurated) , but could only enter service 2 years after that , because it was necesary to intall all the equipment , SATE ,etc,etc .. , and this past february 5 it was inagurated without been finished ! . Lots of additional equipment is been installed now .
Enter into full service terminal of the magnitude of both MAD T4, LHR T5 it's a LONG and costly process . I doubt in March 2008 LHR T5 could enter service.
No HT5 will definitely enter service in 2008. The buildings are already pretty much complete. As of today BAA are counting down 739 days to launch which takes us to October 2008. Heathrow East will probably follow immediately as it aims to be complete in time for the 2012 Olympics.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 05:59 PM   #219
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Regarding LHR T5 i donīt blame anybody . I insist that after the civil engineering work , there is the hardest part of install all the equipment. Itīs not only very costly , but also very much time consuming . Only the automatic baggage handling system takes years not only to install but also to test, and tune. You must also install thousand of kilometers of wires of multiple types, like computer networks, electrical , water, air conditioning . Every airport MUST develop itīs own software solution , specifically for this particular airport, usually lasting years to develop , debug and very usually enter into service with lots of faults , as all we know.

I know how the civil enginnering work is going , but I believe that T5 just itīs IMPOSSIBLE to enter service not only in 2008, but also in 2009. You must remember that also in Madrid is was said that would enter Ļ.. at the end of 2004Ļ, then Ļ... beginnign of 2005Ļ, finally was opened Februrary 5,2006 , 2 years after the building was complete and inagurated !. And even now lot of equipment continous to be installed . In any case the inaguration have been a GREAT SUCCESS . AENA just reported that Barajas T4 on itīs first montht have register a 83% punctuality ( less than 15 minutes from schedule) ! .Thatīs great. SATE is doing PERFECTLY according to AENA, so an ENORMOUS SUCCESS here .

My originall post was a response to a previous discussion about MAD wasnīt able to catch up Schiphol . The numbers are showing how wrong were those who said MAD would NEVER catch up Schiphol ... well , even before T4 entered service have done so , so imagine from now on .In any case only from October 2006 when the new runaways will work at full capacity, the new slots will be awarded. Expect SPECTACULAR increase in passengers .

Regardin LHR , I think that T5 is more a REPLACEMENT terminal that an EXPANSION terminal .To start itīs NOT big enough . Donīt have enough fingers, specially on itīs main body. I think on T5 as a modernization that on an expansion of capacity at LHR. I think the main limiting factor is RUNAWAYS at LHR . Whatīs the poing of construction terminals if you cannot feed it because of lack of runaway ????? . From now on an airport with only 2 runaways cannot be called a Hub. Even if the 3rd small runawasy itīs built , it wouldnīt solve the problems of LHR ,that once again are runaway related ,rather than terminal related. Be realistic , LHR cannot be expanded into the future , better of take Stansted, lets say , and EXPAND it appropiately with at least 6/8 runaways and those marvellous Richard Rogers terminals , that i like so much .

In fact , in case of necesity , Barajas wouldnīt be the Madrid Hub . It would be ANOTHER GIGANTIC airport under study called ENAM. Still under study and secrecy (to avoid land speculation) . Some say it would lay at Campo Real , others like me think Ocaņa itīs better place . It would be a 8/10 runaways , connected with all the high speed trains to the south and south-east. Others think the current Barajas , even further expanded with more satellite terminals ( comtemplated in the actual expansion) , will be enough to absorb future demands.. i tend to agree with this.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 10:32 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
I know how the civil enginnering work is going , but I believe that T5 just itīs IMPOSSIBLE to enter service not only in 2008, but also in 2009. You must remember that also in Madrid is was said that would enter Ļ.. at the end of 2004Ļ, then Ļ... beginnign of 2005Ļ, finally was opened Februrary 5,2006 , 2 years after the building was complete and inagurated !. And even now lot of equipment continous to be installed . In any case the inaguration have been a GREAT SUCCESS . AENA just reported that Barajas T4 on itīs first montht have register a 83% punctuality ( less than 15 minutes from schedule) ! .Thatīs great. SATE is doing PERFECTLY according to AENA, so an ENORMOUS SUCCESS here .
You don't say that this great "success" incudes a 100% of cost increase over budgeted.

You don't say that this great "success" means to decapitalize and impowerish the whole spanish airports network: 80% of investment made in spanish airports for the last 7 years has gone to Madrid airport that stands for only the 23% of users. Barcelona airport enlargement has a delay of 5 years beacuse funds have gone to Madrid's budget deviation. When it will be finished that airport will have a capacity of 40M pax/year and by then the demand is expected to reach 38M ! Enlargement will become obsolete in one year.

Why this irrationality? because Spain is the only Western Europe country that has a centralized monopolistic public airports administration. Other countries around have a free market in airports infrastructure: airports compete amongst them and everybody has its chances. In Spain, airports have not the possibility to set their own strategies. We all have to carry passangers to Madrid to travel to the rest of the universe. Otherwise that enormous deficit in Madrid airport cannot be afforded by its metropolitan or regional economy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
My originall post was a response to a previous discussion about MAD wasnīt able to catch up Schiphol . The numbers are showing how wrong were those who said MAD would NEVER catch up Schiphol ... well , even before T4 entered service have done so , so imagine from now on .In any case only from October 2006 when the new runaways will work at full capacity, the new slots will be awarded. Expect SPECTACULAR increase in passengers .
It is easy to compare just the bloody numbers without taking into account that dutch economy and entrepreneurial institutions have created such a big hub fairly competing against Paris and London that are 1 hour away by plane! Meanwhile, Madrid required to stand in a privileged position by submitting a whole country airports through a public monopoly.

And talking about numbers: Beijing will soon surpass Madrid and Amsterdam with its 17% growth rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
Regardin LHR , I think that T5 is more a REPLACEMENT terminal that an EXPANSION terminal .To start itīs NOT big enough . Donīt have enough fingers, specially on itīs main body. I think on T5 as a modernization that on an expansion of capacity at LHR. I think the main limiting factor is RUNAWAYS at LHR . Whatīs the poing of construction terminals if you cannot feed it because of lack of runaway ????? . From now on an airport with only 2 runaways cannot be called a Hub. Even if the 3rd small runawasy itīs built , it wouldnīt solve the problems of LHR ,that once again are runaway related ,rather than terminal related. Be realistic , LHR cannot be expanded into the future , better of take Stansted, lets say , and EXPAND it appropiately with at least 6/8 runaways and those marvellous Richard Rogers terminals , that i like so much .
And now pretending that there's something better in Madrid's airport than any of London's 5 ones !
LHR is currently managing more users with only 2 runaways than the future full capacity of MAD with 4 runaways !
What's good in such waste of resources and territory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airport1969
In fact , in case of necesity , Barajas wouldnīt be the Madrid Hub . It would be ANOTHER GIGANTIC airport under study called ENAM. Still under study and secrecy (to avoid land speculation) . Some say it would lay at Campo Real , others like me think Ocaņa itīs better place . It would be a 8/10 runaways , connected with all the high speed trains to the south and south-east. Others think the current Barajas , even further expanded with more satellite terminals ( comtemplated in the actual expansion) , will be enough to absorb future demands.. i tend to agree with this.
In case of necessity, there's a lot of desertic land around Madrid and some drawings. Fundings to make those drawings real should come from selling current airport land... but they didn't count the 3000 Meur deficit! Who else will you guys squeeze then?
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