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Old March 23rd, 2006, 01:56 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaii50
You don't say that this great "success" incudes a 100% of cost increase over budgeted.
Not really . In fact the 6.2 billions for a project of this magnitude it's peanuts. Everybody in the world have praised AENA for building such an enormous expansion so cheaply. Even in those numbers are the increase on value of the terrains in wich Barajas lies !!! . The real construction and equipment expending is much lower . Only 1 billion for the terminals . Look at the 2004 AENA memory at AENA's website .



Quote:
that airport will have a capacity of 40M pax/year and by then the demand is expected to reach 38M ! Enlargement will become obsolete in one year.
Joder . It's a question of disponible LAND !!! . Barcelona airport it's limited by it closeness to the sea , and because the catalan generalitat DIDN'T granted terrain in what considered to be a "natural reservoir" . Even the 3rd runaway is SHORTER that planned, because the catalans generalitat didn't concede permision to EXPAND it . Now a catalan citizen blames ONCE AGAIN Madrid for what it's a catalan goverment responsability .

This remembers me of the LIES of the catalan goverment about the AVE Madrid-Barcelona . The reason why the line IT'S NOT CONSTRUCTED it's because the original plan of Fomento to enter into Barcelona by tunnel and DIRECT , was FORBIDE by the catalan goverment in favor , after years of DELAY, of entering Barcelona from the south and into Tarragona !!! .

Tipical catalan bashing of SPAIN . The catalan goverment is RESPONSABLE of the DELAY , and BLAMES Madrid of the DELAY .

If the catalan generalitat WOULDN'T stopped the original plan , the AVE Madrid-Barcelona would have reach Barcelona Sants train station time ago .


Quote:
Why this irrationality? because Spain is the only Western Europe country that has a centralized monopolistic public airports administration.
It's UNBELIABLE . Spain has the LOWEST air taxes in Europe by a wide margin !!! . Secondary airports are financed by the primariy ones .

Saying that Barajas get funds for others airports apart of been a LIE , it's evil . Typical catalan bashing of the rest of Spain .

If exist one airport that generates much more income that receives that's Madrid Barajas .By far the more profitable airport in Spain .

Barcelona growth it lead by Low Cost Carrieres (LCC) and charters . Bringing low cost tourist . In contrast the presence of LCC in Madrid is marginal .

Madrid Barajas expansion has been finance with long term loans . Once again LOOK at the 2004 memory . I see you only want to insult the Spanish administration ,without informing yourself.

If one aiport needed expansion ,that was Madrid Barajas .

Barcelona is under the process of reaching the MAXIMUM expansion possibility. The entire project is at hands of catalans. The architect is Catalan , Ricardo Bofill . If you want a bigger airport , talk to your generalitat to built on the sea , or look for other place , because El Prat Barcelona Airport CANNOT be further expanded . I don't understand the complaint . Spain's AENA will bring Barcelona Airport to it's MAXIMUM expansion possible .

Quote:
It is easy to compare just the bloody numbers without taking into account that dutch economy and entrepreneurial institutions have created such a big hub fairly competing against Paris and London
Once again you are demostrating your ignorance . Amsterdam has been blamed during years of bringing transit passengers to Amsterdam airport by not CHARGING transit passengers !!! .

Would you call it dumping ? . I inform you Schiphol have been always a state own airport . Today "only" own 49% of the airport , that by the way yersterday announce it wanted to sell .... . It's Ferrovial hearing ... .


Quote:
And talking about numbers: Beijing will soon surpass Madrid and Amsterdam with its 17% growth rate.
That's the only statement i agree.


Please STOP your catalan BASHING of SPAIN .
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 04:29 AM   #222
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Airport1969
Heathrow Terminal 5 is ahead of schedule and within budget. It has been under construction for years already, most of the structural components are already completed, and I am very confident it will open on time. And Heathrow Terminal 5 is most certainly an expansion - not a replacement - because nothing is being replaced! The proposed Heathrow East project will indeed be a replacement but HT5 is most definitely an expansion. Heathrow currently handles 68 million pax pa and HT5 will add capacity for a further 30 million. At the moment the most pressing constraint on Heathrow's expansion is terminal capacity. It will be limited by runway capacity in the near future but the government plans to add an extra runway to Heathrow and probably a 6th terminal as well. They may choose to expand Stansted instead but it's most likely that they will add a new runway to both.

I personally think Madrid's Terminal 4 is superb. I love the architecture. However Amsterdam Schiphol offers a much wider choice of destinations - especially in Asia. Schiphol is more of a world aiport.


@hawaii50
You are right about Beijing. Hong Kong will also surpass Madrid and Amsterdam soon.
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Old March 25th, 2006, 07:58 PM   #223
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Is Madrid the largest airport by area in Europe now? I was looking at it on google earth and comparing it to Heathrow, Schiphol and Frankfurt and it is vast. In fact it looks even bigger than Denver and Hartsfield-Jackson from the air.
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Old March 26th, 2006, 04:26 AM   #224
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T4 + T4S are much bigger than T1+T2 and T3.
Madrid will certainly become europe's n3 airport in few years.
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Old March 26th, 2006, 04:42 AM   #225
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I am not really found of T4 architecture, i found it quite cold and unpersonal. Even if I didn't realize the huge expansion and highway system they have built. Another thing that I don't like is that you have no direct access to metro line 8, you have to walk, then take the bus for 15minutes and then arrive to terminal T2 and then walk through T2 to get access to the metro: quite long..nevertheless madrid barajas with T4
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Old March 31st, 2006, 11:53 AM   #226
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Madrid 2016

I really like the airport. It is pity that Spaniards dont apreciate the effort and prefer to critisize, I dont know if its the best of the world but at least its a great work and works very well with the latest technologies.

Subway will be ready end of 2007

And by the way expansion of Madrid Barajas has been the major airport development in Europe in the past 20 years ( with real data), more than Heatrow T5 and similar ones.

I just saw thread about best airports and I cannot undertand why people votes Heatroiw, it is horrific for apssenger to travel , specailly in connections, is worse that old Madrid terminals, and design its crap. Charles de Gaulle its also bad from passenger point of view but at least design is nice. I think Honk Kong, Amsterdam and new t4 in MAdrid are among the best
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Old March 31st, 2006, 09:08 PM   #227
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nice design but I think its too much "dancing and curving", but Im sure many others will like it.
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Old April 1st, 2006, 12:54 PM   #228
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I think it's great - especially for a European airport. Most new airport or terminal designs in Europe are sort of limited due to financial constraints etc. (e.g Berlin, Frankfurt)...... as opposed to many bold projects being realised in Asia (especially China) and the Middle East. So I think Madrid did quite a good job here. Congrats.
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Old April 1st, 2006, 01:01 PM   #229
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I don't like it at all
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 01:05 PM   #230
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Of all forms they are being presented to build a second airport in Madrid to give support al airport of Madrid-Barajas.
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Old April 18th, 2006, 10:34 PM   #231
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Amsterndam Schiphol is nr 1 in european passangers preferences. Madrid Barajas is 101...


http://www.ocu.org/images/26/260422_ATTACH.pdf

The Spanish Consummers Organisation (OCU) and other 6 european Consumers Orgs. interviewed more than 23,000 uropena passangers (3,000 spaniards amongst them) in order to know their experience from ticket purchase to arraival at destination...

http://www.retraso.com/Web/estadisti...tadisticas.htm

... so, stop spamming baby.
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Old April 18th, 2006, 10:39 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaii50
Amsterndam Schiphol is nr 1 in european passangers preferences. Madrid Barajas is 101...


http://www.ocu.org/images/26/260422_ATTACH.pdf

The Spanish Consummers Organisation (OCU) and other 6 european Consumers Orgs. interviewed more than 23,000 uropena passangers (3,000 spaniards amongst them) in order to know their experience from ticket purchase to arraival at destination...

http://www.retraso.com/Web/estadisti...tadisticas.htm

... so, stop spamming baby.
Who's spamming? This thread has been dead for a month until you resuscitated it!

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Old April 21st, 2006, 05:48 PM   #233
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MARCH 2006

MAD Barajas......3, 578,287

AMS Schiphol.....3, 385,600

MAD-AMS= 192, 687

MAD figures: http://www14.aena.es/csee/ccurl/PROD200603b.pdf
http://estadisticas.aena.es/

AMS figures: http://hugin.info/135966/R/1045090/171157.pdf
http://www.schipholgroup.com/ Press Release 12-04

Must take into account that in 2005 Holy Week fell in March , so numbers are less significative because this year 2006 Holy Week fell in April .

This Holy Week a 10% increase in passengers at Barajas has been preeliminary reported, surpassing new records of aircraft movements and load factors.

AENA have rejected an offer by Easyjet to take control and assume all remodelations costs of Terminal 1 at Barajas , of course AENA have REJECTED it . AENA don't want LCC at Madrid.

AENA have just announced a major remodelations of old terminals 1,2 and 3, for this 2006 fall.

Terminal 3 will go for Air Europe and Sky Team alliance .
Terminal 2 will serve for non-Schengen flights.
Terminal 1 will go for crappy SAS Spanair and it's Star Alliance partners .

The Spanish public accuse Spanair of using in Spain planes rejected as old and crappy in Scandinavia ( SAS own completly Spanair) specially their OLDEST McDonnell Douglas .

SAS Scandinavia have transfered Spanair 37 McDonnell Douglas with and average age of 16,8 years !!! .

Fleet details here:
http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/?...op&opp=Spanair
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/S...ctive-md80.htm

Recently several Spanair planes have had tecnical issues in Spain . Even with this tactic of using old amortized planes in Spain , SAS managment in Spanair is unable to make a profit . SAS is using it's oldest planes only to damage the Spanish domestic market, and totally unable to make a single profit.

Even SAS managment manipulated Spanair numbers in last years to make-up the SAS group numbers... bastards . Now they blame Spanish managment , of course they lie... the accounts were managed in Scandinavia .

It's incredible SAS Spanair is asking for place in the new Terminal 4 . Now they are asking for new slots , bastards ! . Hopefully AEAN will use wethever trick to not granting them new slots.

In sharp contrast Iberia , Air Europe or Vueling fleets are ones of the most modern fleets in the World.

Madrid Barajas haven't granted new slots in the last 5 years.

AENA have announced that in October the slot capacity will increase to ONLY 90 movements/hour, versus the 120 minimun actual capacity potencial. Airlines are accusing AENA of limiting LCC and other companies growth, not releasing slots ... .
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Old April 21st, 2006, 06:23 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infraestructura
AENA have rejected an offer by Easyjet to take control and assume all remodelations costs of Terminal 1 at Barajas , of course AENA have REJECTED it . AENA don't want LCC at Madrid.

It's incredible SAS Spanair is asking for place in the new Terminal 4 . Now they are asking for new slots , bastards ! . Hopefully AEAN will use wethever trick to not granting them new slots.

Madrid Barajas haven't granted new slots in the last 5 years.

AENA have announced that in October the slot capacity will increase to ONLY 90 movements/hour, versus the 120 minimun actual capacity potencial. Airlines are accusing AENA of limiting LCC and other companies growth, not releasing slots ... .
So afraid of competition?
So arrogant towards the traveling public who want lower fares?
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Old May 15th, 2006, 04:31 PM   #235
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Madrid Barajas new World's Biggest Airport

Madrid Barajas Airport is the World's Biggest Airport in terms of Passenger Terminal area, with 940,000 square meters ( more than 10 Millions square feets), after the opening of the new Terminal 4 complex at Madrid Barajas .

Code..........sq meters..........sq feets

MAD..........940,000..........10,118,035...........Madrid
ICN............655,206............7,052,550............Seoul
LHR............600,000............6,458,320............London
DEN............557,420............6,000,000............Denver
HKG............540,000.............5,812,488............Hong Kong
ATL............613,404............5,700,000............Atlanta
DFW............510,968............5,500,000............Dallas
ORD............441,941............4,757,000............Chicago
LAX............355,731............3,829,052............Los Angeles
JFK............330,850............3,561,233.............New York



Terminal 4:

470,261 square meters ( 5,061,847 square feets) TERMINAL AREA
6 Levels ( 3 underground )
1,142 meters long x 155 meters wide
154 check-in positions
20 automated check-in
19 baggage belts
39 JETBRIDGES
22 REMOTE STANDS

Terminal 4-S Satellite:

286,984 square meters TERMINAL AREA
6 Levels
927 meters long
26 JETBRIDGES ( A-380 Ready)

T1,T2,T3:

198,000 square meter
3 adyacents terminals
37 JETBRIDGES
9,050 parking slots

TOTAL BARAJAS ( T1,T2,T3,T4,T4S):

940,000 square meters (10 Million sq feets) TERMINAL AREA
18,000 Passengers/hour
70 Millions passengers year Nominal capacity .
120 Aircraft Operations/hour
104 JETBRIDGES


The Madrid Barajas masterplan envision further terminals as needed . It construction depends on the final decision regarding a second airport for Madrid or continous to further expanding Barajas, that is the most likely decision .

In 2006 Madrid Barajas has surpassed Amsterdamm Schiphol as 4rd busiest european airport . EUROCONTROL forecast Madrid Barajas will become the 3rd busiest european airport on it's latest medium term european air traffic orecast.
http://www.eurocontrol.int/corporate...cast_final.pdf



When their expansions will complete, both Beijing PEK ( Terminal 3) and london heathrow LHR ( T-5 ) , will match Madrid Barajas MAD with around 1 Millions square meter each .


BARAJAS T-4 CONSTRUCTION

Madrid Barajas T4 construction started in 2000 , and only 6 years later it was inagurated on February 5, 2006 , with 2 new runaways , new control tower, new access highways,etc

July 2001 , lot to be done .
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0316074/L/

May 2002 , Barajas is very close to Madrid capital
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0235920/L/

May 2003 , biggest construction site on Europe .
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0364878/L/

September 2003 , inmense construcction site .
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0557500/L/

May 2004 , the access highway wasn't constructed yet .
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0584564/L/

2005 , COMPLETE.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0836552/L/ T-4 Satellite
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0755830/L/ Overall picture
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._overview1.JPG


TERMINAL INTERIORS

Boarding Gates
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._interior1.JPG
Boarding Gates
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._interior2.JPG
Entrance
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._interior7.jpg
Cross-Section
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._interior6.jpg
Exit
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._interior5.JPG


Cockpit landing picture
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/316372/L/

3 Iberia Airbus 340 at T4-S
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1022713/L/




PASSENGER TRAFFIC EVOLUTION MADRID BARAJAS


1960.............906,170

1970...........4,158,212

1980.........10,166,638

1990.........16,037,585
1991.........16,107,840
1992.........18,069,004
1993.........17,301,558
1994.........18,416,510
1995.........19,964,997
1996.........21,865,051
1997.........23,634,113
1998.........25,506,395
1999.........27,545,020

2000.........32,829,182
2001.........34,002,411
2002.........33,915,302
2003.........35,855,861
2004.........38,718,614

2005.........41,963,197

The traffic growth at Barajas has Always surpassed the most optimistics figures . Because of that the airport have suffered from cronic terminal congestion because the failure to correctly predict passenger numbers . In 2005 the number of passengers grew a 8,4% , while in 2006 ,after the much needed inaguration of T4, the passenger traffic is growing enormously .

BARAJAS LINKS

http://www.richardrogers.co.uk/rende...Ds=1,6,12,1189
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_Airport
http://www.aena.es/csee/Satellite?pa...O=0&lang=EN_GB


--------------------------------------------

DATA SOURCE

MADRID
T4 and T4S
http://www.richardrogers.co.uk/rende...IDs=1,4,24,296

Parking building at T4, of 309,000 square meters it's NOT included in the 940,000 numbers.

T-1,T-2,T3
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/D...31/En42_46.pdf
(Page 5, 198,000 "metros cuadrados" means "square meters" )



Atlanta
http://www.atlanta-airport.com/defau...o/factpage.htm

Chicago
http://www.ohare.com/MasterPlan/Sect...an%20-%202.pdf
(Page 5, 4,757,000 sq feet of actuall area . The other numbers are propossed expansion numbers)

New York JFK
http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/jhisfram.htm

880 acre = 3,561,233 sq. meters

Denver

http://www.flydenver.com/guide/facility/passenger.asp

"The Jeppesen Terminal has more than 1.2 million square feet of space. Including the three airside concourses, there is more than 6 million square feet of public space at DIA. Concourses A, B and C have a total of 93 gates. At full build-out, DIA has room for two more concourses - facilities that can serve 100 million passengers per year. "

Los Angeles LAX
http://www.lawa.org/lax/justTheFact.cfm
Area in the terminals total 3,829,052 square feet (355,860 square meters).
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Old May 15th, 2006, 06:49 PM   #236
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The airport is beating records .

This April 28 Barajas operated 1,338 operations (672 departures/666 arrivals)

http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/record%20mayo%202006.pdf

Also it's by far, the cheapest mayor Hub in the World .

International Passenger tax at Barajas is:

4,19..........Departing
1,22..........Security

6,41 Euro Total Departure Passenger Airport Tax .

Madrid Airport tariff 2006.
http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/GUIA%2...6%20INGLES.pdf
(Page 10 is Security tax, Page 11 Passenger Departure tax)

Another taxes are paid by the airlines.

. The airport taxes for Madrid are the same on all it's terminals , and equal to the other airports of AENA network , like Barcelona , Mallorca, Malaga , etc.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 06:53 PM   #237
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Do you re-register every month to post these useless stats?

You are doing Madrid and its fantastic airport expansion a disservice by being such an annoyance.

-_-
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Old May 15th, 2006, 09:36 PM   #238
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Well you might have the biggest terminal size in area but because your terminals are seperated it is not the world's largest terminal. You can check Guiness book of world records, Hong Kong Int. airport is still the worlds largest terminal under one roof. After Bangkok International opens they will have the title of the worlds largest terminal, then Beijing will carry that title in 2007.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 10:04 PM   #239
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Actually this "size" will only be a disadvantage: Long taxi times. I'd rather go via LHR where there is much more traffic but very short taxiing distances.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 10:25 PM   #240
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I posted in another thread about how huge Barajas looked on google earth ( bigger than Atlanta and Denver ) so I'm not suprised by this. Does anyone know the rates for retail space and opportunities at AENA group airports? I dont speak Spanish and the commercial sections of the website arent all available in English.
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