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Old December 12th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #21
DiggerD21
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Update

S-Bahn:

- The extension to Stade on line S3 is already in service. The S-Bahn is running between Stade and the old terminus Neugraben in 20-min-intervalls.

- The branch to the airport has been inaugurated yesterday and is in service since today (finally!) with 10-min-intervall. At station Ohlsdorf each train is split in two: one half drives to the airport and the other half continues the trip on the old branch to Poppenbüttel. That means, passengers have to be aware in which part of the train they are, but will have enough time to change the carriage. Some pictures of the inauguration [IMG]here.[/IMG]

-There are still (or again) talks about transforming the regional rail line R10 to a proper S-Bahn line from Hauptbahnhof to Ahrensburg.


U-Bahn:

- line U4 in the Hafencity (2 stations) is U/C. When this stage is finished, it will run from Billstedt to Hafencity Universität. The operator Hochbahn has even created a website dedicated to this project (in german only).

- the reconstruction works of the ring line at Berliner Tor is still under way. One direction is finished. Works at the other direction will last until autumn 2009.


Stadtbahn/Tram:

- the city government expressed the will to build a modern tram line within the next 4 years. It is planned to have a tram-network of at least 40 km and 4 lines in the final stage. The first stage to be built within the next 4 years should be the red part in the following map. It will run mostly separated from other traffic on street-level.



The black part is from the old plan of 2001. The coalition partners are still arguing whether to realise this track or another route.
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Old December 12th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #22
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'Schlump' is a very unusual name for a station...

Does it mean anything?

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Old December 12th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #23
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"Schlump" probably has its origin in the low-german word "slump" which means "mud" in english. The area was once swampland.
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Old December 12th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #24
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I am still wondering whether it is even possible to build an transfer station at the new U4 at "Baumwall"?
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Old December 12th, 2008, 03:59 PM   #25
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Glad to see that the S-bahn has finally been extended to the airport. Hamburg was one of the few major airports in Germany without a rail link so it'll be good to visit now that there is a good link there.

How likely is the Stadtbahn proposal to go ahead? It'd be good to see that area of Hamburg finally get some rail based transit.
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Old December 12th, 2008, 06:21 PM   #26
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The Stadtbahn is part of the coalition contract between the conservative CDU and the Greens. As the current plans were made under the last government of socialdemocrats (SPD) and Greens, I don't expect any opposition by the SPD. I see the worsening economic situation as the biggest threat.


As for the previous situation with the airport connection: It was not like that you were reliant on the expensive taxis. There are several city bus lines stopping at the airport:

Metrobus 26
Bus 114
Bus 174
Bus 274
Bus 292

map of the buslines near the airport (pdf-file)

Only the airport connections by the bus lines 172 and 110 have been abolished now.

Of course now the situation is far better:
- 25 min. instead of ca. 40 min. to reach the city center
- no change of lines needed
- less waiting time
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Old December 13th, 2008, 05:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggerD21 View Post
The Stadtbahn is part of the coalition contract between the conservative CDU and the Greens. As the current plans were made under the last government of socialdemocrats (SPD) and Greens, I don't expect any opposition by the SPD. I see the worsening economic situation as the biggest threat.


As for the previous situation with the airport connection: It was not like that you were reliant on the expensive taxis. There are several city bus lines stopping at the airport:

Metrobus 26
Bus 114
Bus 174
Bus 274
Bus 292

map of the buslines near the airport (pdf-file)

Only the airport connections by the bus lines 172 and 110 have been abolished now.

Of course now the situation is far better:
- 25 min. instead of ca. 40 min. to reach the city center
- no change of lines needed
- less waiting time
I've never been a fan of catching buses from airports (try to avoid it as much as possible). Rail is far easier for your average tourist. Thanks for the info on the buses though!

Anyway, I'd have thought that the Stadtbahn would be more likely to go ahead in difficult economic times simply due to the fact that infrastructure is one way to buoy up the economy! Here's hoping as it looks to be a good investment.
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Old December 13th, 2008, 04:47 PM   #28
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In Germany it is not that clear if the governments (federal and states) will invest more in infrastructure in order to fight the recession. Don't forget that in the 70's the city of Hamburg wanted to construct more subway lines, but then ran out of money.
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Old December 13th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #29
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So, why did Hamburg abolish their trams when most of Germany kept theirs? And it was abolished so late, 1978? Does anyone have a map of the old tram network?
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Old December 13th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #30
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The city government already decided in 1958 to slowly abolish the tram and replace it with new metro lines. Until 1978 almost every year parts of the tram network were abolished. In the end, as already said, there was no money left to build all planned metro lines.

I guess back then the tram had a rather bad image among city planners. But as we know, in the 60's and 70's city planners did a lot of mistakes in german cities.
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Old December 13th, 2008, 11:23 PM   #31
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Great thread. After several years of using the 'Jasper' bus, it's great to see Hamburg finally has a rail link. However having seen these pictures (link below) I'm surprised they didn't incorporate more luggage space in the train stock. I fear the trains will become as crowded as London's Piccadilly Line which serves Heathrow or the Stansted Express. In your favour, I believe the continental loading gauge gives more space.

http://360cities.net/image/germany-h...-station-et474

A real shame about Hamburg's trams. Had they lasted another decade, then the authorities might have seen the benefits that the newer generation of trams brought.

Having taken the double decker suburban trains from Hamburg Hbf to the nicely refurbished Luneburg station (with its excellent cycle storage/maintenance park), I must say that services are very good.

By the way, is it true that 'neighbour' Lubeck Airport is set to get its own station? I'm sure I read that a station which closed in the 1970s on the Lubeck Hbf - Luneburg line, is due to reopen.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 01:44 AM   #32
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Those doubledecker "suburban lines" are classified as regional rail lines. :-) But yes, they are great.

Interesting that you chose to take the more expensive Jasper bus shuttle instead of the normal city bus + U-Bahn for half the price.

With regards to the rolling stock of the S-Bahn: It is used on the whole network (not like the London Underground where every line has its own dedicated rolling stock) and obviously the operator can't afford buying more trains and employ some more drivers. That's the only explanation for me why they chose to implement this stupid train division at station Ohlsdorf (the first three carriages go on to the Airport, the last three drive to Poppenbüttel). Together with the insufficient signalling at the stations I bet a lot of people will find themselves in the wrong part of the train.

Regarding luggage space, I don't think it is such a problem. The trains are bigger than LU rolling stock and also the legroom between the seats is bigger. For sure there is more space than in the previously used shuttle buses. (BTW: the Jasper buses are still operating. They are not part of the HVV tariff system unlike the S-Bahn)

About Lübeck Airport: I have just checked it, and yes there is now a rail link. They just needed to build a station as the rail was already there. Trains from Lübeck are running once per hour and need 8 minutes from Lübeck central station. For people coming from Hamburg the Ryanair Shuttle buses are still more comfortable and cheaper tough.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 02:48 AM   #33
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once an hour? What is the point. I'd rather get a taxi for an 8minute journey than wait an hour for the next train.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 03:45 PM   #34
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The regional train is passing the airport anyway, continuing the journey to Lüneburg. So they thought of building a station there. As passenger traffic at Lübeck Airport is very low (about 50.000 per month), there is no need to raise the frequency of the train. It is just one more option to reach the airport besides the city bus (also from Lübeck central station, needs ca. 25 minutes) and the expensive taxi.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 08:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggerD21 View Post
The regional train is passing the airport anyway, continuing the journey to Lüneburg. So they thought of building a station there. As passenger traffic at Lübeck Airport is very low (about 50.000 per month), there is no need to raise the frequency of the train. It is just one more option to reach the airport besides the city bus (also from Lübeck central station, needs ca. 25 minutes) and the expensive taxi.
Sorry, there is no possible way to justify an hourly service. It is not a true public transport service if it is only once an hour. You miss the train by 1minute and the wait until the next one is far too long to be practical. Half hourly service is the bare minimum and even that is pushing it for an airport service.

If I were flying to Lubeck, I wouldn't even bother to check the timetable and just get a taxi and I am sure many others would agree with me. I would have already waited long enough at the disembarking airport and on the flight. Waiting 59minutes for a train would be totally unacceptable to me. Take into account as well that the taxi will take me straight to my destination, whether that is work, hotel or if I lived there my home, where as the train, with that one hourly service will probably not take me directly to my destination and then I will either have to walk from the main train station, find another bus (which could also have a long waiting period in such a small city) or get a taxi anyway... all this and I may also have plenty of luggage to lug around.

According to the site below, the taxi takes about 15minutes to Lubeck central, though I don't dispute your 25minute's as traffic can vary times. Between €10-€15 direct to the destination is more than acceptable and cheap enough to not even considering alternatives unless one is seriously on a budget.

http://wizzair.com/destinations/airp...formation/LBC/
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Last edited by Justme; December 14th, 2008 at 08:27 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 12:53 AM   #36
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You miss the point: The train is by far not primarily an airport shuttle. It is a regional rail which already existed before, linking Lübeck with Lüneburg approx. 70km to the south-west. They just thought of building a simple stop there, which actually not only serves the airport, but also the adjacent village Blankensee. The ticket price from Lübeck to the airport station is the same as for the bus (city fare). If you miss the train, you can still take the bus or a taxi. (I believe though there are not so many low-cost-travellers in Germany who prefer to spend more on a taxi and instead pay with time).
In the end, most pax of this airport come from Hamburg, which use the direct bus shuttle (schedule synchronised with every single flight) anyway.

I think enough is said about Lübeck, which is not even part of Hamburg's tariff system. Back to Hamburg. :-)
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Old December 15th, 2008, 07:34 AM   #37
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^ No, I didn't miss the point. A one hour service is still pointless. And the extra buses don't make any difference if you miss the train, one may as well as just took the bus in the first place.

The taxi still sounds the best bet though. Will be faster than the bus and much faster when you consider it will take you directly to the hotel or destination, and of course, you don't have to sit squashed next to a smelly hippy too cheap to pay the €10 for a taxi who hasn't washed in three days.

;O) But anyway, back to Hamburg is fine with me.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beta29 View Post
Here I found one picture of a Hamburg tram. This is one of the last. Since 1978 there´s no tram service anymore.

It's strange that now Hamburg is the only big german city without trams. I don't understand why.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:11 AM   #39
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In the 60's and 70's the city wanted to replace the trams with new metro-lines. But at the end they ran out of money to build all planned lines (also due to a financial crisis in the 70's, I guess). At that time trams were regarded as old-fashioned and uncomfortable. Nowadays everybody regrets that the tram had been abolished.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggerD21 View Post
In the 60's and 70's the city wanted to replace the trams with new metro-lines. But at the end they ran out of money to build all planned lines (also due to a financial crisis in the 70's, I guess). At that time trams were regarded as old-fashioned and uncomfortable. Nowadays everybody regrets that the tram had been abolished.
Is it possible to see a plan with all planned lines in the 60's and 70's?
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