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Old December 21st, 2006, 06:27 PM   #201
Chi649
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Originally Posted by The Urban Politician View Post
^ Ziv and McClendon, NIMBY's on steroids.

Seriously, nearly 99% of the Chicago metropolitan area has exactly the kind of environment they covet. Why do they want to do this to Chicago's renowned downtown?

There is nothing that could possibly back up what they're trying to do other than pure self-righteousness.
Exactly, if they are against living near very tall buildings, they have absolutely no business living downtown. Furthermore, anyone living near the Lake has absolutely no business living there if they are against tall buildings. There are plenty of areas that they can move to in Chicago and be assured that nothing tall will ever be built. The zoning in that area needs to be changed ASAP because a height limit of 350' is totally inappropriate.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 07:15 PM   #202
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Exactly, if they are against living near very tall buildings, they have absolutely no business living downtown. Furthermore, anyone living near the Lake has absolutely no business living there if they are against tall buildings. There are plenty of areas that they can move to in Chicago and be assured that nothing tall will ever be built. The zoning in that area needs to be changed ASAP because a height limit of 350' is totally inappropriate.

I couldn't agree more. The downtown area exists precisely for the purpose of creating population density and tall buildings. Anyone with a miniscule brain should realize that the city = tall buildings/ urban living. Move to Lincoln Park or the burbs if you can't handle the constantly evolving urban landscape.
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Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:28 PM   #203
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"Eighty stories seems to be too tall," she said.





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But McClendon is worried that allowing one high-rise into the South Loop will lead to lots of them coming into the area. He believes that if the city allows an 80-story building to be built, there will be nothing to stop even taller buildings from going up.
Waaaah, oh no, tall buildings, what shall we do? God forbid people put tall buildings in a CITY, let alone one like Chicago that's always been known for building short.

******* Nimby's.

Last edited by Hecago; December 22nd, 2006 at 11:38 PM.
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Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:33 PM   #204
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Double post.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 03:57 AM   #205
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^ I agree. People who hate tall buildings should never live in a city.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 06:14 PM   #206
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i wonder where exactly these people (nimbies) live?
are they living in lowrise townhouses?

which btw I would love if many modern townhomes bit the dust,
talk about most of them being ugly and monotonous to the extreme.
these are the type of people who many times belong in the burbs.

south loop is a bad bad place to be a nimby,
if you ask me this area makes more sense to be called downtown,
since for me atleast the chicago river was the demarcation between non downtown and downtown.

anyways merry xmas.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 07:38 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohammed wong View Post
i wonder where exactly these people (nimbies) live?
are they living in lowrise townhouses?

which btw I would love if many modern townhomes bit the dust,
talk about most of them being ugly and monotonous to the extreme.
these are the type of people who many times belong in the burbs.

south loop is a bad bad place to be a nimby,
if you ask me this area makes more sense to be called downtown,
since for me atleast the chicago river was the demarcation between non downtown and downtown.

anyways merry xmas.
^ Well, Chaucer, the biggest problem with the south loop? A calamity named 'Dearborn Park' was built that created a critical mass of low-density. cul-de-sac addicted NIMBIES that will never go away--it's like a cancer. I would love to see that whole DP development go down in flames. I hate that shit with a passion.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 11:51 PM   #208
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Seriously, the nicest thing that could happen to Grant Park would be a "wall of city" on the S, W & N quadrants, to create an outdoor room - this is the Central Park effect.

I've never, ever felt deprived of sun or air in any way while standing in, say, the Promenade in Central Park, even though the behemoths of Midtown lie directly to the South, East and West. If anything, the height & density at the edges of the park give it an enhanced sense of "parkiness".

Grant Park has lost much of its power as the N/NW edges soar, while the height-challenged S/SW edges just peter out. The overall effect is one of imbalance.

Last edited by wrabbit; December 26th, 2006 at 12:03 AM.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 01:41 AM   #209
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Why cannot Mr Downtown get banned? We could impeach him. He obviously does not represent the will of the people on these threads. But than again I do not what to stifle his free speech. But perhaps he could do it in other arenas that he currently is doing.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 02:33 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Why cannot Mr Downtown get banned? We could impeach him. He obviously does not represent the will of the people on these threads. But than again I do not what to stifle his free speech. But perhaps he could do it in other arenas that he currently is doing.
The individual you refer to has not been disrespectful in any way to the other forumers.

SSC isn't a popularity contest and the gentleman makes well-argued points that contribute to the overall richness of the board's discussions, regardless of whether or not you agree with him.

This forum would be a pretty dull place indeed if everyone were of a like mind on all issues!
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Old December 26th, 2006, 03:07 AM   #211
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to Mr. Downtown's defense, he has expessed it in a very civilized and polite way. I agree with you wrabbit that the wall effect would be awesome, what a great setting for our DT lakefront parks. And with nothing ever going to be built East of the parks, I would think that sunlight blocking buildings to the West would be less of a concern.

Last edited by Chi649; December 26th, 2006 at 03:21 AM.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 03:22 AM   #212
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Banning "MR D" is not a good idea at all, its irrational voices like his that actually energize the majority of people on this forum, FOR highrises. My only question is how can you be against shadows, and for highrises!? Highrises=shadows. Keep MR D and let him unintentionally rally the base of highrise and shadow loving forumers! Enough Said.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 03:45 AM   #213
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[QUOTE=wrabbit;11033294]The individual you refer to has not been disrespectful in any way to the other forumers.

QUOTE]

Agreed but if you look at my origional post I support a minority or a disenting opinon. But he is truley againt what we are tryng to advance. I was saying mabey this is not the best forum for him to get a true hearing or understanding about his positon. Most of us are all pro hight, pro city, pro progress, ect.
I would expect him to continue to get bashed in these forumes/ threads because this is our domaine. This is for his sake and ours. I am not advocating banishment, hell after this project is U/C I would like to see what other building he is tring to stop. I love the man and he has great enthusiasm but if he impeds this great project and others that stop the great vision of burham and daley than I would be sad if we continued to let him rant in our forurm.

Let it get built and I will welcome him in open arms.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 05:59 AM   #214
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Quote:
the height & density at the edges of [Central] Park give it an enhanced sense of "parkiness".
That's the role played by the existing Michigan Avenue streetwall. I don't believe there's anything fronting directly on Central Park South that's more than 41 stories (Park Lane Hotel). Central Park West hasn't changed since 1931; the Majestic and San Remo are only 30 stories. The 50-story towers of Rockefeller Center are hundreds of feet south.

Huge citizen protests in the 90s forced redesign of the Coliseum Site project (what eventually became the Time Warner Center) because the initial proposal would have cast shadows on Central Park. The Municipal Art Society organized a memorable protest with people in the park opening black umbrellas to show how the shadow would spread across the park.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 06:22 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Why cannot Mr Downtown get banned? We could impeach him. He obviously does not represent the will of the people on these threads. But than again I do not what to stifle his free speech. But perhaps he could do it in other arenas that he currently is doing.
You don't ban someone just because you disagree with his views. If that person is respectful of other people, as MrDowntown is, then he has just as much of a right as anyone to be here and express his views, no matter how repugnant to the dominant paradigm of this website they may be.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 06:31 AM   #216
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That's the role played by the existing Michigan Avenue streetwall........ Central Park West hasn't changed since 1931; the Majestic and San Remo are only 30 stories. The 50-story towers of Rockefeller Center are hundreds of feet south.
^ The blocks west of CPW in New York are of a density not seen outside of Manhattan (in America, at least). They are loaded with stores, shops, cultural institutions, and vitality in a manner inconceivable.

The blocks west of the south Michigan Avenue streetwall (which is shorter than the CPW streetwall) are riddled with parking lots and a horrid inward-oriented suburb that contributes nothing to the environment around it.

Bad comparison. Chicago needs density in those areas, period. A developer plans a tall building, retail, parking, and a specialtry grocer (and he will renovate the facade of an historic building). Take it and drop this 'shadows' nonsense.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 07:21 AM   #217
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That's the role played by the existing Michigan Avenue streetwall...
Yes, at one time, when the Michigan Avenue cliff contained some of the city's tallest buildings, but that was a generation ago.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 05:42 AM   #218
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The Central Park reference is also flawed because the scales of the two places are completely incomparible. Central Park is fully three times the size of Grant Park (870 acres compared to 290 acres). One structure has much less of an impact on Central than it does on Grant.

I'm not agreeing with or advocating Mr. Downtown's position, but, I thought this needed to be brought up.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 02:35 PM   #219
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The Central Park reference is also flawed because the scales of the two places are completely incomparible. Central Park is fully three times the size of Grant Park (870 acres compared to 290 acres). One structure has much less of an impact on Central than it does on Grant...
Yeah, well, I'm aware of the differences in scale, and that is why I mentioned the Promenade in my original post, which is in the far South of the SE quadrant of Central Park and has a mass of very tall buildings to the South, East and West (shadows from the South, shadows from the East, shadows from the West). In other words, this is how it feels to be in a great urban park with tall buildings casting shadows all around. This is how it feels to be in a large urban outdoor room. This is how a streetwall can paradoxically enhance your sense of being outdoors.

I should have made all of this clearer in my post - sorry.

Last edited by wrabbit; December 28th, 2006 at 02:50 PM.
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Old December 31st, 2006, 09:19 PM   #220
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Well, at least we now all know that durung the winter in the afternoon, the skyscrapers west of Michigan Avenue don't create that much of a shadow across.

Case-in-point the image below which comes from Wikipedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erial_View.jpg

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