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Old January 6th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #221
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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:03 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
Well, at least we now all know that durung the winter in the afternoon, the skyscrapers west of Michigan Avenue don't create that much of a shadow across.

Case-in-point the image below which comes from Wikipedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erial_View.jpg

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Old January 8th, 2007, 10:31 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
All right, letís talk seriously about shadowing.

In Chicagoís climate, itís hard to imagine any serious planner or urbanist who would dismiss the shadowing of the cityís premier park. Here on the lakefront, there are fewer than 20 days a year that park users would choose shade rather than sun.

Hereís a shadow study for three useful dates when people would be in Grant Park seeking sun. I didnít even calculate the other 7 months of the year, when the afternoon shadowing is much worse because of the low sun angle.



I donít have a full 3-D modeling program, so I didnít calculate shadows for the other buildings fronting the park. You can get a rough idea by knowing that 830 is twice the size of anything currently around it. 1130 S Michigan is 431 ft, 1000 S Michigan would be about the same. Shadows from the Central Station towers now under construction will fall largely on the IC tracks in the afternoon, though they should also be a matter of civic concern.

Now this is a thin building, so the shadow may not seem terribly serious. But how can other developers be denied the same opportunity? This developer already owns the Auditorium Garage site at Wabash/Congress, and there are a dozen other ďsoft sitesĒ along Wabash. What will Grant Park be like with a dozen towers this size shadowing it every afternoon?


If there are a dozen towers here, they will be spread out. The park won't be in constant shade. Also, the farthest ends of those shadows wont be as dark as the areas closer to the building.


I personally like some shade. I don't want to get wrinkled up and old looking. I like that Rhododendrons are planted along some of the downtown streets now. They wouldn't do well in full sun.


I'm curious what you use to calculate the position of the sun at those times. I'm not saying you are wrong; I just wanted to know for calculating it on some other things myself.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 06:18 AM   #224
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Anyone can perform sun angle calculations. They're pretty simple. If you go to www.susdesign.com there are a handful of useful apps for just this purpose.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 06:20 AM   #225
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Quote:
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wtf are you trying to prove?
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Old January 9th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depressio View Post
wtf are you trying to prove?
Its just a scale/site comparison of CP & Grant Park - see posts 221-2, top of the page.

BTW, you might wanna tone it down a little there, huh?

Last edited by wrabbit; January 9th, 2007 at 07:04 AM.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 07:11 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depressio View Post
wtf are you trying to prove?
^ Wow, you're an annoying little newcomer aren't you?
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Old January 9th, 2007, 07:28 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmia View Post
the farthest ends of those shadows wont be as dark as the areas closer to the building.
Ummm, after traveling 93 million miles, the photons don't get tired traveling the last 200 feet. Sun shadows are just as dark at one end as at the other.

Quote:
I'm curious what you use to calculate the position of the sun at those times.
I get the altitude and azimuth from the US Naval Observatory
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/
and then plug the altitude into the shadow length calculator at
http://www.wsanford.com/~wsanford/shadow_length.html

Actually, once you know the altitude, the shadow length is a simple trig function but I'm lazy.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 07:38 AM   #229
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Sine=Opposite of Hypotenuse
Tangent=Opposite over Adjacent
Cosine=Adjacent over Hypotenuse
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Old January 9th, 2007, 07:51 AM   #230
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^How about csc? sec?? cot???
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Old January 9th, 2007, 07:53 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
...Sun shadows are just as dark at one end as at the other...
But this does not factor in the light reflecting/refracting off of Lake Michigan directly to the East.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 09:49 AM   #232
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Well, since all surfaces reflect light to some degree, areas close to a corner (such as a building's intersection with the ground plane) end up somewhat darker than out in the open, even those areas in direct shadow. This is because the corner blocks some of the reflected light from all the surrounding surfaces, which comes from all directions.

I'll do a demonstration if that was confusing.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 04:58 AM   #233
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I noticed a core drilling rig on the parking lot for the last 2 days.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 08:46 AM   #234
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I'm clueless on the implications of that but I'll take a wild guess and say that maybe its for the caissons?
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Old January 27th, 2007, 09:00 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi649 View Post
I'm clueless on the implications of that but I'll take a wild guess and say that maybe its for the caissons?
They'd never try to drill caissons without city approval.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 09:17 AM   #236
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Ahh, that would make sense since it is not approved yet. Any word yet on changing that 350' height limit? Since Da Mayor lives at Heritage, at least I thought I read that somewhere, I'm hoping he can really help this one get built.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 09:17 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi649 View Post
I'm clueless on the implications of that but I'll take a wild guess and say that maybe its for the caissons?
Long answer, yes. Its for a long soil sample to determine exactley the type of soil below and the bearing capacity upon which the building will rest upon. This determines the size, type and depth of foundation structure, in this case, caissons.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 09:19 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi649 View Post
Ahh, that would make sense since it is not approved yet. Any word yet on changing that 350' height limit? Since Da Mayor lives at Heritage, at least I thought I read that somewhere, I'm hoping he can really help this one get built.
There is no 350' height limit on the parking lot portion of the site on Wabash, which is where th tower will go. the 350' figure is from a guide line plan drafted by neighborhood groups in the South Loop which has no legal bearing on this projects future approval.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 09:22 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn View Post
There is no 350' height limit on the parking lot portion of the site on Wabash, which is where th tower will go. the 350' figure is from a guide line plan drafted by neighborhood groups in the South Loop which has no legal bearing on this projects future approval.
The following is from an article posted on the 11th page of this thread, which made me think otherwise, but I hope you're right.

"But according to Second Ward Alderman Madeline Haithcock, the proposal has not been approved. Because the proposal is over the 350-foot height limit, she said by phone last Friday, she would have to rezone the area, which she has not done."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn View Post
Long answer, yes. Its for a long soil sample to determine exactley the type of soil below and the bearing capacity upon which the building will rest upon. This determines the size, type and depth of foundation structure, in this case, caissons.
Thanks Shawn. Is what you're describing referred to as the excavation?

Last edited by Chi649; January 27th, 2007 at 09:30 AM.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 11:54 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi649 View Post
Ahh, that would make sense since it is not approved yet. Any word yet on changing that 350' height limit? Since Da Mayor lives at Heritage, at least I thought I read that somewhere, I'm hoping he can really help this one get built.
Mayor and Maggie Daley did not move into the Heritage. They still live in the townhomes in Central Station. As for Da Mayor's help, I think that this one fits right into his vision for Grant Park. I would be very surprised if it wasn't approved at 80 stories.
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