Newfoundland separation?

[ssiguy2]

I know that many a Newfoundlander have always had mixed feelings about joining confederation.
Is there a strong independece movement in NFLD? Links?

[Joev]

I'm originally from Nfld, but I'm not a separatist kind of guy myself, however there is a vocal minority who like to keep the idea alive. I feel that I can have pride in my heritage without the need for an independant Nfld. Did you know that when the BNA Act was written, it already included the idea (a clause I believe) for Nfld to join Canada at some point as a given; that is, whenever it wanted to. I feel that Nfld has always been historically connected to Canada so it really doesn't matter that much from an ideological aspect whether it's independent. However, if the province's people were ever to decide otherwise, and the economic base made independence practical, I think it could happen.

This newspaper (the name may tell you something) seems to entertain that idea:
http://www.theindependent.ca/news.asp

http://www.theindependent.ca/

[thryve]

Funny how there are Nfndlnd. separatists regardless of the fact that without Canada's government the province would be completely economically depressed.

[Joev]

Originally Posted by SP!RE

Funny how there are Nfndlnd. separatists regardless of the fact that without Canada's government the province would be completely economically depressed.

The fact is some of them don't believe that; they look to Iceland as an example. One of the issues is control and management of resources. You are aware of the oil reserves, and the large nickel deposits?

Like I said; I like Canada.

[algonquin]

Originally Posted by SP!RE

Funny how there are Nfndlnd. separatists regardless of the fact that without Canada's government the province would be completely economically depressed.

Many people, like I, would question that, and many more would outright disagree.

Newfoundland would make a fine country, but Canada would be worse off without it, and Newfoundland would be worse off without Canada. Same goes for Quebec, in my books.

[ssiguy2]

Interesting. Thanks for the links Joey.

[Tosco]

Separation would be bad for everyone, even for the rich provinces.

[Joev]

Excerpts from article by Evening Telegram newspaper:

Saturday, September 24, 2005
Williams OK with changing province’s flag
By JOHN GUSHUE Special to The Telegram

Premier Danny Williams said he personally supports hoisting the Pink, White and Green as the official flag of Newfoundland and Labrador, although he cautions a change in government policy is another matter altogether.
“From a personal perspective, I have that preference,” Williams said Friday, responding to a new petition that calls for the Pink, White and Green to become the province’s flag.

An online petition launched a week ago calls on the government to proclaim the Pink, White and Green — which has been associated at various points in history with independence — as the official flag.

If approved, the flag would replace the design created by Christopher Pratt and unveiled in 1980.

The Pink, White and Green is rooted in bridging sectarian differences, and dates to the 1840s. The pink and green sections relate, respectively, to the English and Irish roots of Newfoundland’s settlers, with the white stitching them together.

“From my understanding, the flag went on to become a revolutionary icon,” Pike said.

“It’s been used as a sign of independence and it’s been a mark of rebellion.”

Pike stresses that his petition, however, is not meant to argue for separation or independence.

“People (see it) as a symbol of what’s perceived as a better past, when it was an independent country,” Hopley said.

“(But) it’s simplified and romanticized. … I think a lot of people who buy it are not going to get involved in a political way.”

Anyway, I prefer the new flag, and don't remember seeing the pink & green when I was a kid at all; but this, or some variation, would be my solution:

[Zim Flyer]

Since when was Newfoundland in it's history revolutionary - it was always one of the most loyal parts of the Empire - just look at how many Newfoundlanders volunteered to fight in the first world war.

I think Premier Danny Williams has a distorted view of history. He basically wants to copy the Irish flag with a pink edge - and how does Pink represent England?

[ssiguy2]

Don't like it, too busy. I like the current flag much more. I think the current one is one of the nicest in the country.

[Joev]

Originally Posted by ssiguy2

Don't like it, too busy. I like the current flag much more. I think the current one is one of the nicest in the country.

In case you misunderstood, the flag I showed below is just my own version, combining the current and traditional flag. Like I said, I never saw (or noticed) that pink white & green used in Nfld when I grew up there; I think the Union Jack was used instead for a provincial flag - the Pink white & green seems to have been just been recently rediscovered in popularity. I much prefer the current provincial flag, and I don't think most Nflders would vote for that (pink) one, as it seems to be more popular with those who still have the idea of a seperate nation.

[Zim Flyer]

I checked on Wikipedia about Newfoundland and some square brain has written the section on Newfoundland that is full of mistakes. Firstly it gives Newfoundland the pink flag and also says Newfoundland used to be a republic - no it didn't it used to be Dominion of Newfoundland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland

I think someone from Newfoundland should go on there and put the right flag up and put in the correct history. The present piece has clearly been written by someone with a seperatist chip on their shoulder.

[skymann]

There was a TV programme (BBC2 I think) recently about Newfoundland and they had someone from Iceland kinda saying how much better off the province would be if it had a lot more control over its resource and that it could be abother Iceland.

Would seem very odd for Newfoundland to be separate from Canada. I suppose with your being such a vast land different parts have a tendancy to want to break away, but it would be a shame. Maybe you just need to give more powers to the provinces???
(we could do with that in the UK for sure)_

[bluenoser]

I think centralizing powers would be better for the country, giving more power to the provinces just causes inequality and bitterness.

[You are to blame]

Originally Posted by skymann

There was a TV programme (BBC2 I think) recently about Newfoundland and they had someone from Iceland kinda saying how much better off the province would be if it had a lot more control over its resource and that it could be abother Iceland.

Would seem very odd for Newfoundland to be separate from Canada. I suppose with your being such a vast land different parts have a tendancy to want to break away, but it would be a shame. Maybe you just need to give more powers to the provinces???
(we could do with that in the UK for sure)_

Canadian provinces already have more power than any other internal political divisions on the planet

[simadon]

that flag is too busy. Kind of like the tri-colour with pink.

[Joev]

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

I checked on Wikipedia about Newfoundland and some square brain has written the section on Newfoundland that is full of mistakes. Firstly it gives Newfoundland the pink flag and also says Newfoundland used to be a republic - no it didn't it used to be Dominion of Newfoundland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland

I think someone from Newfoundland should go on there and put the right flag up and put in the correct history. The present piece has clearly been written by someone with a seperatist chip on their shoulder.

Yes, the provincial flag should be illustrated on the main page, but if you read on in that article (click below the flag) you will find it dinstinguishes properly between the two flags; here is part of the description given for the tri-colour flag:

"The flag of Newfoundland from 1840 to 1931 was the Tricolour Flag, sometimes known as the "Pink, White, and Green". It originated in St. John's in 1840 and was created by the Roman Catholic Bishop of Newfoundland, Michael Anthony Fleming. Having the proportions 2:1 and with each stripe occupying equal thirds of the flag length, the flag is symbolic of a tradition between local Protestants and Catholics."

Anyway, I think it's ok to have two flags, the more the merrier.

You are right, Nfld was a "Dominion", not a republic; Wikpedia seems to have more than one page - on the following one it clearly refers to "The Dominion of Newfoundland":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_and_Labrador

When I hear people using the term "republic", I think they are being sort of sarcastic, Nfld style.

[Joev]

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

Since when was Newfoundland in it's history revolutionary - it was always one of the most loyal parts of the Empire - just look at how many Newfoundlanders volunteered to fight in the first world war.

I think Premier Danny Williams has a distorted view of history. He basically wants to copy the Irish flag with a pink edge - and how does Pink represent England?

There was some political activism in Newfoundland in the 1800's; that's how it gained independance from Britain. I'm not sure how the pink represents England, I would think orange would have better represented the protestants, but here is a verse I found which might give a clue:

"The pink the Rose of England shows,
The green St. Patrick's emblem bright,
While in betweeen the spotless sheen
St. Andrew's Cross displays the white"

There was also an arrangement, I believe, where every second governor would be Catholic or Protestant. The two denominations always got along well compared to Ireland.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by Joey V

There was some political activism in Newfoundland in the 1800's; that's how it gained independance from Britain. I'm not sure how the pink represents England, I would think orange would have better represented the protestants, but here is a verse I found which might give a clue:


There was also an arrangement, I believe, where every second governor would be Catholic or Protestant. The two denominations always got along well compared to Ireland.

cheers for the verse Joey V, the pink makes sense with that in mind.

I like the idea of every second governor being of a different faith to keep everyone happy. Going of topic here, but events in Ireland provide a good example of what happens when political leaders won't comprimise.

[Lostboy]

Perhaps he means the Pink representing its imperial heritage? As used in historic maps of the British Empire?

There was some political activism in Newfoundland in the 1800's; that's how it gained independance from Britain.

Its my understanding it had Dominion Status right up until after the Second World War, when its sovereignity was transferred to Canada.