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Old January 21st, 2006, 07:43 AM   #241
hkskyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Tak
I flew on Dragonair from HK to Changsha a couple years back. They operated just a single flight per week to that destination. So my question is, is that Dragonair's choice to fly just once a week, or are they restricted to a certain amount of flights once they're rewarded by Beijing for the destination?
It's a mix of both I guess. There is an overall capacity limit while airlines have the discretion to fly as many flights up to that limit as they deem is economically viable.

An air services agreement between HK and China was reached in 2000. Here is a report from Xinhua :

The limit on the total number of airlines allowed to participate in the mainland market will be lifted immediately, while the number of routes that allow "dual designation" by each side will be increased in phases, eventually covering all routes by winter 2006.

As a result, the number of passenger flights that may be operated by airlines of the two sides will increase from around 1,200 to 1,600 per week (number estimated on the assumption that aircraft types currently deployed on respective routes remain unchanged).

Taking Beijing as an example, the new arrangement will allow Hong Kong airlines to add four passenger fpw starting from next month and another seven passenger fpw starting from March next year, bringing the number of weekly frequencies that may be operated by Hong Kong airlines on the route to 70.

As to Shanghai, Hong Kong may designate a new airline to operate all-cargo services starting from next month, and the maximum number of cargo flights that Hong Kong airlines may operate on this route will increase from 21 to 28 fpw.

Passenger capacity will increase about 10 per cent (seven fpw), and another 10 per cent starting from March next year, bringing the number of weekly frequencies that may be operated by the Hong Kong designated airline to 98.

The arrangement currently provides for a wide route network covering a total of 44 destinations in the mainland. A new route, Lijiang, has been included in the new arrangement. Services on the route may commence once Customs-Immigration-Quarantine facilities are in place and the required technical conditions are fulfilled.

Source: Xinhua news agency, Beijing, in English 1129 GMT 8 Sep 04
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Old January 21st, 2006, 08:11 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Nearly every country in the world has restrictions on air traffic. There is no such thing as a free aviation market anywhere in the world. Hong Kong negotiate sits bilateral air agreements with other countries, including China. Other countries had to negotiate with China before a route opens. Even among countries that have bilateral agreements, airlines might still be restricted by a lack of landing slots.
There shouldn't be a need for restrictions between Hong Kong and China at all. They're the same country! They should certainly be regarded as the same entity for aviation purposes. The current set-up is obviously restricting the growth of Hong Kong aviation - in particular of Cathay Pacific. The 25 members of the EU enjoy a much freerer and more open aviation regime than exists between Hong Kong and Mainland China. That should not be the case. China should not be deliberately restricting an important driver of the SAR's economic growth and prosperity.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 08:28 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
There shouldn't be a need for restrictions between Hong Kong and China at all. They're the same country! They should certainly be regarded as the same entity for aviation purposes. The current set-up is obviously restricting the growth of Hong Kong aviation - in particular of Cathay Pacific. The 25 members of the EU enjoy a much freerer and more open aviation regime than exists between Hong Kong and Mainland China. That should not be the case. China should not be deliberately restricting an important driver of the SAR's economic growth and prosperity.

HK Not really exactly as same for mainland Chinese, one example is so obvious, who ever want to go to HK from mainland need special permission (similar like visa). Here we go, HK is a special zone. So, nothing to complain in terms of the air routes.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 05:51 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
There shouldn't be a need for restrictions between Hong Kong and China at all. They're the same country! They should certainly be regarded as the same entity for aviation purposes. The current set-up is obviously restricting the growth of Hong Kong aviation - in particular of Cathay Pacific. The 25 members of the EU enjoy a much freerer and more open aviation regime than exists between Hong Kong and Mainland China. That should not be the case. China should not be deliberately restricting an important driver of the SAR's economic growth and prosperity.
Cathay Pacific gave up its China rights long ago with the intention of having its sister airline Dragonair fly into China and Cathay will stick to international routes. They were not restricted per se on purpose. Cathay now wants to fly back to China, and the shareholder relationship with Dragonair has changed. Cathay is still controlled by the British hongs while Dragonair is now controlled by mainland interests. In exchange for letting Cathay fly into China, Dragonair was allowed to fly internationally (Tokyo, Bangkok, etc.) after negotiations between Hong Kong and mainland aviation authorities.

The negotiation process is exactly the same as any other country wanting to increase flights to China. Asia is not the EU. In fact, I don't think anywhere else in the world would have the type of liberalization that EU countries have.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 05:56 PM   #245
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nice
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Old January 21st, 2006, 06:03 PM   #246
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its really restricting the aviation industry in hkg but i guess its how they protect their market in china ...
as a honger and a consumer ... i do hope they
will open one day ... more choice lower price ...
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Old January 21st, 2006, 06:09 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Cathay Pacific gave up its China rights long ago with the intention of having its sister airline Dragonair fly into China and Cathay will stick to international routes. They were not restricted per se on purpose. Cathay now wants to fly back to China, and the shareholder relationship with Dragonair has changed. Cathay is still controlled by the British hongs while Dragonair is now controlled by mainland interests. In exchange for letting Cathay fly into China, Dragonair was allowed to fly internationally (Tokyo, Bangkok, etc.) after negotiations between Hong Kong and mainland aviation authorities.

The negotiation process is exactly the same as any other country wanting to increase flights to China. Asia is not the EU. In fact, I don't think anywhere else in the world would have the type of liberalization that EU countries have.
But clearly the relationship should not be the same as that governing international aviation agreements. This is not comparable to the relationship between, say, China and Japan, or China and Thailand. Hong Kong and China are supposed to be one country yet Hong Kong's aviation sector, a key plank of Hong Kong's economic prosperity, is being heavily restricted by the Chinese authorities.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 06:15 PM   #248
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Hong Kong and China maintain separate working relationships for many issues on hand. For example, they compete separately at the Olympics, and sit separately in many international organizations. That was the arrangement before the handover, and with China guaranteeing autonomy over Hong Kong after 1997, it wasn't possible to start merging some of these relationships. Aviation is one of them.

That being said, I doubt China-bound traffic is the largest contributor to Hong Kong's aviation community. There is already a lot of capacity between the mainland and Hong Kong, and of course more will be better. However, there are other key markets of concern that will benefit Hong Kong in the long-run, namely cargo (HK is the world's 2nd largest cargo airport), logistics, and long-haul (new routes to Africa, new kangaroo route via HK, budget flights to Europe, etc.). We have seen that despite flight restrictions to China, HKIA is still able to grow very nicely in 2005.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 11:19 PM   #249
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Kunming Airport broke the 10 million line.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 03:44 AM   #250
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Under "one country, two systems" except politics and military, both("China" and "HK, China") can exist as two independent administrative systems, e.g. HK local government doesn't need to pay any taxation to the central government unlike all other mainland cities.
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Old January 28th, 2006, 03:24 AM   #251
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very good
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Old March 14th, 2006, 06:32 AM   #252
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2005 World Top 30 airports by passeger traffic

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Old March 14th, 2006, 01:18 PM   #253
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Strange list.
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Old March 14th, 2006, 01:23 PM   #254
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What's strange about it?
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Old March 14th, 2006, 02:38 PM   #255
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Impressive:

1. ATL is far ahead of other airports. Have been to ATL, a big and nice airport;
2, Beijing airport is booming, 17.5% change rate! It will soon become the top3;
3. Tokyo's 2 airports are all in top30, what a busy city!
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Old March 14th, 2006, 03:10 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwei01
Impressive:

1. ATL is far ahead of other airports. Have been to ATL, a big and nice airport;
2, Beijing airport is booming, 17.5% change rate! It will soon become the top3;
3. Tokyo's 2 airports are all in top30, what a busy city!
Well firstly there is the question of if Beijing can sustain the high growth rate, and then London's two airports are in the top 30? What's special about Tokyo then?
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Old March 14th, 2006, 03:35 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london-b
Well firstly there is the question of if Beijing can sustain the high growth rate, and then London's two airports are in the top 30? What's special about Tokyo then?
Oops! London is a another busy city!

Beijing airport traffic has been at this growth rate for years. Considering the hugh population and booming economy, I have no doubt it will be the world's top3. Now Beijing is building the world's largest terminal and planning for the 2nd airport at the same time.
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Old March 14th, 2006, 03:38 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

What's strange about it?
Atlanta, Phoenix, Minneapolis-St.Paul, Dallas, Seattle are all medium size cities, how could they have the top 30 busiest airport?

Especially Atlanta, it's middle of no where.
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Old March 14th, 2006, 03:47 PM   #259
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do you know what a HUB is?




anyway...london heathrow is stagnating again - the gap between heathrow and the main rivals in europe is getting smaller and smaller every year
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Old March 14th, 2006, 03:50 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carpanatomy
Atlanta, Phoenix, Minneapolis-St.Paul, Dallas, Seattle are all medium size cities, how could they have the top 30 busiest airport?

Especially Atlanta, it's middle of no where.

Atlanta? middle of nowhere?? It maybe further down south but it's huge city, it's another big center for commerce, CNN is based in Atlanta. Have you even been in Atlanta? Have you been in Heartsfield International Airport? Have you seen how huge it is? Check it's website, you'll find out for sure dude.

I've been in both Pearson International Airport in Toronto/Mississauga area and in Atlanta's Heartfield International, Toronto is not even near half as big as that one in Atlanta.
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