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Old January 21st, 2007, 03:29 PM   #401
brisavoine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey View Post
the overall growth of London aviation has been far greater than Paris's in recent years.
Monkey spreading London-über-alles propaganda as usual. According to the UK Civilian Aviation Authority and to Aéroports de Paris's websites, passenger traffic in the five London airports in 2006 increased +2.3% while passenger traffic in the three Paris airports increased +4.9%. 2005 was a slightly better year for London but still passenger traffic in the five London airports in 2005 increased only +3.8% compared to +4.4% in Paris. For these two years combined we thus get an increase of +6.2% for the London airports vs. +9.0% for the Paris airports. Check the real figures next time before making unfounded claims.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 05:17 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
I add:

6- London Gatwick: 34,080,965 passengers
7- Munich: 30,530,000 passengers
8- Barcelona El Prat: 30,008,152 passengers
Rome Fiumicino 30.176.760
Rome Ciampino 4.945.066

ROME AIRPORTS: 35.121.826

Milan Malpensa 21.767.267
Milan Linate 9.696.515
Milan Bergamo 5.244.794

MILAN AIRPORTS: 36.708.576
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Old January 21st, 2007, 05:25 PM   #403
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2006 FIGURES ITALIAN AIRPORTS

Roma FCO 30.176.760 5,2
Milano MXP 21.767.267 10,9
Milano LIN 9.696.515 6,7
Venezia 6.342.178 8,9
Catania 5.396.380 3,9
Milano BGY 5.244.794 20,4
Napoli 5.095.969 11,1
Roma CIA 4.945.066 16,8
Bologna 4.001.436 8,4
Palermo ???
Torino 3.260.974 3,6
Pisa 3.014.656 29,1
Verona 3.007.965 13,5
Cagliari ???
Bari 1.972.926 18,9
Olbia 1.832.085 9,6
Firenze 1.531.406 -10,1
Lamezia T. 1.356.998 16,7
Treviso 1.340.874 3,1
Genova 1.079.990 6,5
Alghero 1.070.491 -0,9
Brindisi 815.541 2,7
Trieste - Ronchi dei L. 677.106 10
Forlì 618.521 9,4
Reggio Cal. 607.727 59
Pescara ???
Ancona 481.588 -0,9
Trapani ???
Rimini 324.454 14,4
Brescia 232.465 -43,3
Parma 127.674 107,8
Crotone 104.421 22,5
Bolzano 76.162 11,8
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Old January 21st, 2007, 07:37 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Monkey spreading London-über-alles propaganda as usual. According to the UK Civilian Aviation Authority and to Aéroports de Paris's websites, passenger traffic in the five London airports in 2006 increased +2.3% while passenger traffic in the three Paris airports increased +4.9%. 2005 was a slightly better year for London but still passenger traffic in the five London airports in 2005 increased only +3.8% compared to +4.4% in Paris. For these two years combined we thus get an increase of +6.2% for the London airports vs. +9.0% for the Paris airports. Check the real figures next time before making unfounded claims.
Check the figures for the last 5 years or 10 years. I think you'll find that London's aviation traffic has grown my more than double the amount of Paris's. Of course the same percentage growth will actually add a far larger numerical increase in London given that London's aviation market is almost double the size of Paris's (137 million to 76 million).
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Old January 21st, 2007, 07:55 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey View Post
London's aviation market is almost double the size of Paris's (137 million to 76 million).
London's five airports had passenger traffic of 136,874,989 in 2006 according to your figures, whereas Paris's two airports (excluding Le Bourget Airport) had passenger traffic of 82,471,719 (not 76 million, get your figures right!). That's only 66% more for London, not double. Either you're bad at math or you're writing things in bad faith. I think I know the answer.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 08:11 PM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey View Post
Check the figures for the last 5 years or 10 years. I think you'll find that London's aviation traffic has grown my more than double the amount of Paris's. Of course the same percentage growth will actually add a far larger numerical increase in London given that London's aviation market is almost double the size of Paris's (137 million to 76 million).
Indeed, Paris' aviation market needs to grow percentage-wise twice as fast as London's just to keep the gap verus London in absolute numbers more or less stable.

That being said, London and the South East will always have a larger aviation market than Paris / Ile de France. It has a larger population, it does not have a large high-speed train network, it is on an island, and the aviation market is completely liberalized.

Note on comparing CDG with LHR, I agree there is a good chance CDG will overtake LHR at some point, but this is as much a result of French policy than of LHR's congestion. France follows a strategy of concentration on one single airport and in a few years' time may only have one airport in the European top ten left (eg when Stansted overtakes Orly), whereas Spain will have two and London will have three.

With regards to the problems at LHR last year, these are a disgrace and both the Labour government and BAA carry shared responsibility. BAA's brand value has dropped dramatically in 2006, international passengers needing a connection in Europe will think twice about using a BAA's airports in London, having seen the pictures of the tents both in the Summer and Winter of 2006.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 08:14 PM   #407
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In Athens, despite currently official available figures in the net show the results up to November, according to estimates of a 10% rise by December in comparison of December 05', throw us a number of about 15,039,919. Though in the next few days the precise number will bi given.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 08:22 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
London's five airports had passenger traffic of 136,874,989 in 2006 according to your figures, whereas Paris's two airports (excluding Le Bourget Airport) had passenger traffic of 82,471,719 (not 76 million, get your figures right!). That's only 66% more for London, not double. Either you're bad at math or you're writing things in bad faith. I think I know the answer.
Calm down Brice. You'll burst a blood vessel with all this anti-Monkey rage! I was simply using the figures for French airports (2005) posted by Karakuri's post #41.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 08:22 PM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Either you're bad at math or you're writing things in bad faith. I think I know the answer.
So much for politeness. May it not have occurred to you Monkey just took his numbers from the post by Karakuri higher up on this page? No reason here to start insulting other forumers.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 09:18 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGG View Post
So much for politeness. May it not have occurred to you Monkey just took his numbers from the post by Karakuri higher up on this page? No reason here to start insulting other forumers.
May it not have occured to you that the correct figures were in post #16 which Monkey was perfectly aware of given that his post (#17) came just after it? No reason here to start defending Monkey, also known as Mercutio, whose anti-French sentiments are well-known by the French forumers. Check this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey View Post
No country in the world works so consistently against Britain and British interests as France.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey View Post
France is not a real friend at all. They are completely opposed to us on almost every foreign and European policy stance we have. [...] When are Brits gonna stop kidding themselves that we can be friends with the French?
This guy's messages very often exude aversion to France, to say the least, so let's not be naive.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 09:32 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
May it not have occured to you that the correct figures were in post #16 which Monkey was perfectly aware of given that his post (#17) came just after it?
I just looked for the convenient figures at the time. I didn't even notice that they were from 2005. But so what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Monkey.... whose anti-French sentiments are well-known by the French forumers.... This guy's messages very often exude aversion to France, to say the least, so let's not be naive.
Stop quoting me out of context and stop being so hyper-sensitive.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 09:40 PM   #412
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Fancy chats about 'mine is bigger than yours' and 'mine grows up faster than yours' are hidding some criteria differences that may distort comparisions:

To compare same city airport's system we must define in which case an airport 'belongs' to a city. How far (distance) from city center? How long (time) to city center? To city center or to city limits?

Only when this criteria are clear we can compare...
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Old January 21st, 2007, 09:52 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakthrough View Post
Fancy chats about 'mine is bigger than yours' and 'mine grows up faster than yours' are hidding some criteria differences that may distort comparisions:

To compare same city airport's system we must define in which case an airport 'belongs' to a city. How far (distance) from city center? How long (time) to city center? To city center or to city limits?

Only when this criteria are clear we can compare...
... very true, the time it takes you from the airport to the city center is an important criterion. I would put it all under "customer experience". And in that respect it is usually not the world's largest that do best, it is often a category below.

For instance, for anybody connecting in Europe I would recommend Franfurt or Madrid ahead of London or Paris by miles...
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 12:39 AM   #414
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It's a shame the London vs Paris battle always come up when talking about city strength related topics... Moreover we are comparing FIVE airports figures with TWO airports figures, this is a non sense.
I posted 2005 figures for I didn't find 2006 stuff, but they have obviously risen since then.
Paris CDG is building a huge new terminal, this may be caused by an increase in passenger frequentation.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 03:26 AM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boeing777 View Post
Rome Fiumicino 30.176.760
Rome Ciampino 4.945.066

ROME AIRPORTS: 35.121.826

Milan Malpensa 21.767.267
Milan Linate 9.696.515
Milan Bergamo 5.244.794

MILAN AIRPORTS: 36.708.576
Sorry, I correct it now:

1) London Heathrow: 67,340,090 passengers
2) Paris Roissy Charles de Gaulle: 56,849,567
3) Frankfurt: 52,820,000
4) Amsterdam Schiphol: 46,062,111
5) Madrid Barajas: 45,530,010
6) London Gatwick: 34,080,965
7) Munich: 30,530,000
8) Rome Fiumicino: 30,176,760
9) Barcelona El Prat: 30,008,152
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 07:31 AM   #416
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Wow Barajas nearly outperform Schiphol ! How come Barajas attracts many passengers > there are very few intercontinental links to Asia from there compared to Schiphol.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 08:08 AM   #417
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INDONESIA (sorry, maybe INDONESIAN AIR is not as busy as EUROPEAN air)

1. SOEKARNO HATTA-INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, JAKARTA. 2005 pax: 27,947,482

2. JUANDA BARU INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, SURABAYA. 2005 pax: 8.21 million

3. POLONIA AIRPORT, MEDAN 2005 pax: 4,033,073

4. I dunno fer more. But NGURAH RAI INT'L AIRPORT in BALI is kinda busy with international flight... but dunno the pax number btw...

CIAO...
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 09:09 AM   #418
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Vienna International: 16,855,725 pax - a % 6.3 increase from 2005 and combined with 2005's numbers a %13.2 increase. Very impressive. They are presently building a new Main Terminal building, which will be able to accommodate up to 25 Mill. pax.

Toronto, Pearson Int'l Airport: 29,914,750 pax- 2005
31,000,245 pax- 2006 (+/- 100 pax)

A nice increase in passenger numbers for Pearson- numbers which I would expect we will see rise quite significantly over the next few years as, International transfer passengers stop using US airports due to heightened passport restrictions.

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Old January 22nd, 2007, 10:11 AM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyprince View Post
Wow Barajas nearly outperform Schiphol ! How come Barajas attracts many passengers > there are very few intercontinental links to Asia from there compared to Schiphol.
Think Barajas is the European "gate" to Latin America, with important connections like Buenos Aires (934,000 pax), La Havana (502,000) or Mexico City (481,000).

Moreover there are some international routes over 1 million pax like London LHR, Rome FCO, Paris CDG or Paris ORY.

Anyway, it's true that we lack Asian links.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 10:18 AM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
It's a shame the London vs Paris battle always come up when talking about city strength related topics... Moreover we are comparing FIVE airports figures with TWO airports figures, this is a non sense.
I agree and Brisavoine should have known very well what he was sawing when he started the topic in post 21 by saying CDG was about to overtake LHR. I fully agree with you it is hard to compare the aviation systems in both cities, the first reason being the geographic situation (island versus central traffic node in Europe).
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