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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:26 AM   #881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post
What's with the tram agenda you're pushing?
He is a tram lover but he spams every metro thread with posts related to tram.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Trams can transport more people than buses. So replacing some buses with trams will leave you more space on the road.
Why waste money on that when you could build more subway lines?...
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Old August 27th, 2011, 12:17 AM   #883
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In such big city like Beijing - and still growing - it has to be metros, not trams.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 01:31 AM   #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
Why waste money on that when you could build more subway lines?...
I love subways, but one some routes, metros are not qualified (too little demand), but something better than a buses is still wanted: hence a tram would come in handy.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 06:04 PM   #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
In such big city like Beijing - and still growing - it has to be metros, not trams.
Not necessarily. Big cities have a variety of public transport modes. They all complement each other. When demand warrants, then a subway line can be built. For example, London has a huge Tube network, but they do have trams as well.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 07:07 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Not necessarily. Big cities have a variety of public transport modes. They all complement each other. When demand warrants, then a subway line can be built. For example, London has a huge Tube network, but they do have trams as well.
Or Hong Kong, which even on the dense Hong Kong island has metro, trams, buses, mini-buses and taxis, in stead of _just_ metro.

One does not exclude the other, but can complement each other in a highly efficient web of transportation.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 06:57 AM   #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
I love subways, but one some routes, metros are not qualified (too little demand), but something better than a buses is still wanted: hence a tram would come in handy.
Agreed. Trams are very handy as feeders and medium capacity rail transport too for more sparsely populated areas that don't warrant a metro. Considering how vast Beijing is and how massive the bus system is, obviously the metro will never fulfil the entire transport role and supporting transport will always be needed.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 02:09 AM   #888
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you'll probably see more tramways in china. as of now, resources are better spent on providing heavy rail through the most congested areas of the largest, most congested cities.

tramways work best in smaller centers or in the lower density suburban fringes. of course trams are a good thing, but currently their development is not the most efficient allocation of limited resources.

the hong kong island tram line isn't a good example of pragmatic mass transit. it runs on surface streets through a high density area of a very large city. as such, it is painfully slow, especially when right turning vehicles block intersections. it's slower than the buses running alongside and certainly no competition for the subway. it is a good example of historic preservation, a great tourist draw, and provides photo ops. if i were suddenly imbued with simcity-like powers over hong kong or other large cities, i certainly would not tear it down, but i would insist on ROW for any new rail transit through central/congested areas of large cities.

mind you, surface tramways aren't especially efficient in other hyper dense large urban areas. you COULD run surface street trams through midtown manhattan or central london or central paris, and they'd attract some riders. but from a pragmatic pov, the flexibility of buses makes more sense in city centers.

there are reasons why the larger german cities' tramlines have ROWs through the high density city centers, but that's really not so different from heavy rail. you'd be getting rid of a main advantage of trams; surface street accessibility.

on a tangential note, many urban planners, historians and aficionados rue the dismantling of the streetcar system of say... los angeles. but even if the streetcar system in LA had been perfectly preserved, it would need to be supplemented with a comprehensive above ground/below grade heavy rail system be competitive. at grade rail is just too slow for longer journeys in congested areas.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 05:07 AM   #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
but even if the streetcar system in LA had been perfectly preserved, it would need to be supplemented with a comprehensive above ground/below grade heavy rail system be competitive. at grade rail is just too slow for longer journeys in congested areas.
Well, duh.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 09:19 AM   #890
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Sorry if I'm getting off topic, but regarding LA, some people argue that the streetcar network contributed to sprawl because it allowed people to move out into the suburbs. When automobiles and driving became cheaper and easier after WWII, there was little need for the streetcars anymore. And the word 'streetcar' doesn't really describe the full scope of the system that once was in LA; it was more of a hybrid urban streetcar/suburban trolley system.

I doubt the same scenario would happen in China where population density is much higher. Most people don't live in single family homes and driving still isn't affordable and convenient for the masses.

Regarding the different modes of transportation (heavy rail, buses, trams, etc.), like others said different situations call for different solutions. To use Hong Kong again as an example, heavy rail ferries many people from Hong Kong Island and Kowloon deep into the New Territories. Many people get off and walk home or transfer to buses, etc. But there are few light rail systems that circulate around the many high rise complexes near station areas. Because they have their own right of ways, they quickly get people to and from the rail station and frequency is high. Because the area is small, stations are very close together and ridership numbers call for a medium capacity mode of transit, light rail is more appropriate. Singapore has some similar systems in place as well. And I could see this setup working in many Chinese cities too around densely populated rail/subway stations. Light rail in these places would work well because they can be faster than buses (if they have their own ROW) and higher capacity and are more appropriate than heavy rail. This is just one example of the implementation of light rail; I was just in Hong Kong, so I thought of this after reading this thread. Of course many other types of neighborhoods would be well suited for light rail too.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 03:25 PM   #891
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I’ve some questions (arose after viewing some websites). Please answer one by one –
1) Will Line 15 be extended from Houshayu to Fengbo & from Beishatan to Wangjing West & from Summer Place to Beishatan?
2) Will Line 8 be extended from Huoying North to South gate of Forest Park & from Beitucheng to Museum of Art?
3) Will line 10 be completed to form a second ring line like line 2?
4) Will there be a new Line 16 from Suzhoujie to Yushuzhuang ?
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Old August 31st, 2011, 05:30 PM   #892
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1) Yes, line 15 will be extended in both directions. Houshayu-Fengbo is opening later this year. Beishatan-Wangjing West will open in 2014. What is different is the last section beyond Beishatan. It won't end at Xiyuan (Summer palace), but at Qinghuadonglu, where a new station on line 13 is planned. The crazy thing is that they will build a station named Guanzhuang when there's already one with the same name in Batong line (Only in latin characters, in hanzi is different).
2) Yes, but it will end at Zhuxinzhuang (Changping line), not at Huoying North. Huilongguan East to South gate of Forest park is opening later this year, while Zhuxinzhuang to Huilongguan East and Beishatan to Chinese Museum of Art will open next year. From Chinese Museum of Art, a Southern extension to Wufutang is planned.
3) Yes. It will open next year.
4) Yes, it's that. They are also planning a Northwestern extension from Suzhoujie (line 10) to Beianhe as a separated line, the Haidian Shanhou line. You might not like this...
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Old September 1st, 2011, 10:12 AM   #893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
mind you, surface tramways aren't especially efficient in other hyper dense large urban areas. you COULD run surface street trams through midtown manhattan or central london or central paris, and they'd attract some riders. but from a pragmatic pov, the flexibility of buses makes more sense in city centers.
Yes, but buses mean wasting energy on the rolling friction of rubber.

I agree that in bigger cities, trams should work as complementary to off-grade metro. Trams for shorter trips or for last stretch of trip, metro for longer trips.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 04:48 PM   #894
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A rather revealing and amusing article..author is unknown...

Trapped in the human hurricane that is Line 1 of Beijing metro

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Recently, I took the Beijing metro.

Not for the first time, though. I had taken the metro before usually either late at night or in some obscure corner of the city where people come and go in a steady but thin trickle.

In attempt to evade the traffic and avoid the whopping 40 yuan ($6.25) fare I had been coughing up everyday for a cab, I decided to take the metro. This time, I was traveling at 5:30 pm, the height of rush hour, from Muxidi to Guomao on Line 1, the line infamous for hosting massive throngs of people.

Now I finally know how a chicken feels in a chicken pen at a chicken-nugget factory. Where did this exodus come from? I live in Hong Kong, one of the most densely populated cities on the face of Earth, and yet the Hong Kong metro seemed spacious in comparison.

Standing sandwiched between a middle-aged woman clutching an armful of shopping bags and the sweaty bicep of a beefy doppelganger of the Michelin Man, brought back memories of the Taylor Swift concert I attended a few months ago. The inside of the metro bore an uncanny resemblance to the mosh pit at the country star's Hong Kong debut.

I remember my friend Lucy remarking with amusement, that she couldn't lie down. "Try to fall back!" she exclaimed through the cacophony. I relaxed my body and let my knees give in. And yet I did not budge one inch. There were so many people converged on me from all directions, that the collective flesh of 1,000 concert-goers simply supported me in standing position.

The Beijing metro was no different. In fact, the 2 yuan ticket entitles you to a little extra, something that isn't offered with the HK$900 ($115) Taylor Swift ticket - incredible, awkward tension.

When a stranger's face is literally a few centimeters away from yours and shifting your stance is not an option, you are forced to tilt your eyeballs in the most unnatural way to avoid eye contact. Otherwise, you will find yourself immobile, gazing deeply into the other person's soul for the hour-long ride.

I was lucky, however, and managed to snag a spot by the television screen, a dusty monitor screening pixilated animations from a provincial television program, the kind of program I would instinctively flip past while watching TV at home.

Yet on the metro, it was like watching Harry (Potter) discover a horcrux (the key to the secret codes) at the premiere of Deathly Hallows Part 2. Tweens watched, as if catching up on the latest episode of Glee; middle-aged men ogled, as if enjoying the finals of Miss Universe. Two young Canadians stood in the corner enraptured, straining their necks to catch a glimpse of the subtitle-less, barely audible, mediocre children's cartoon, as if it were the finals of an ice hockey tournament.

The hardest part, however, was getting off. Somehow, during the course of the journey, I was pushed toward the back of the carriage and squeezed against the window. The doors were at the other end. I was stuck.

In the end, I followed the thin path created by two women inching their way through the crowd, using them as pawns, and finally got off the train.

Victory! I strolled through the station jauntily, proud to have survived the journey so far. All I needed to do was transfer to Line 10 to get to Tuanjiehu. And then I paused mid-step. I saw it by the escalator - a massive, gaggle of noise and human flesh.

What was going on? I stepped closer to observe. It resembled the crowd of maniacal girls I saw waiting for Justin Bieber at his concert only months after Taylor's debut. And then it dawned on me. These were the people transferring to Line 10. I backed away in horror.

Better take the taxi home.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:20 PM   #895
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lol we had the same experience a few times, but one time was especially bad, transferring from the 2 to the 4 at Xuanwumen. The first time we decided to just walk to Xidan
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Old September 5th, 2011, 12:53 AM   #896
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Please try to answer these questions one by one-

1) Left side, right side or both side, - which type of platforms are in most numbers in Beijing subway network?
2) Elevated, ground level or underground, - which type of stations are in most numbers in Beijing subway network?
3) Which are the highest & deepest station of Beijing metro?
4) Which is the busiest metro station on Beijing metro?
5) Which stations have interchange facility with suburban rail network on Beijing metro?
6) Where is/are the depot(s) of the subway network?
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Old September 5th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #897
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1) Right side for elevated stations, and left side for underground ones.
2) AFAIK, underground.
3) Don't know.
4) Don't know. Perhaps anyone from Beijing could answer those two.
5) For now, only Xizhimen, which connects with Beijing North Station, where starts the S2 suburban train.
6) They are at the following locations:
Gucheng and Sihui (Line 1)
Taipinghu (Between Xizhimen and Jishuitan) (Line 2)
Longbeicun (Beyond Anheqiao North), Majiapu (Near Gongyixiqiao) and Nanzhao Road (Beyond Tiangongyuan) (Line 4 and Daxing line)
Tiantongyuan North and Songjiazhuang (Line 5)
Bagou (Line 10, also for Line 8 as it doesn't have depots yet)
Huilongguan (Line 13)
Maquanying (Line 15)
Sihui (again) and Tuqiao (Batong line)
Dingsi Road (Near Zhuxinzhuang) (Changping line)
Yancun (Beyond Suzhuang) (Fangshan line)
Songjiazhuang (again) and Taihu (Beyond Yizhuang Railway Station) (Yizhuang line)
Airport Express depot (Where the line splits and goes to Terminal 2 and Terminal 3).

Next time you could see Wikipedia
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Old September 5th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #898
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A lot of demanding questions, this guy.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 11:09 PM   #899
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I remembered riding the Beijing Metro in 1990, even at that time the crowd is kinda crazy and I got my glasses broken by the mob.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 08:11 AM   #900
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Dear Passengers blog
http://www.dearpassengers.com/2011/0...e-passageways/

Quote:
Beijing’s Xizhimen Hub To Sport New Interchange Passageways
Posted on 23 September 2011 by David Feng

In brief: New interchange passageways for Line 13 travellers changing to Lines 2 and 4 will open this Saturday, according to local media reports.


The Line 4 part of Xizhimen Subway Station

Beijing’s Xizhimen hub is a real mess — and at the time, one true hub. We’ve three Subway lines and a full railway station — one wishes that this might be the case at Beijing South, which — thanks to the new HSR to Shanghai — is seeing more riders than one might hope for.

The mess is greater at Xizhimen, though, for it’s where three high-capacity city Subway lines mix and mingle with a less busy railway station. As of late, it has been an excruciating experience changing Subway lines at the hub, since Line 13 riders had to nearly fully exit the station to complete the transfer. The whole station was a curse: it was too easy for riders to go the wrong way.


Wrong way!

Relief, though, is coming this Saturday, according to local media. Riders changing from Line 13 will be able to use the same, wider transfer passageway that present-day riders on changing from Line 2 or Line 4 to Line 13 have enjoyed. Depending on your line of travel, you will use separate channels when going from Line 13 to either Line 2 or Line 4.

During rush hour, the walk will be about 10 minutes, while during the daytime, it’ll take probably about 5 minutes or so to finish the change. At the same time, a new semi-underground transfer tunnel will also open for those going between the Subway and Chinese National Railways (at Beijing North).

This is probably the best possible news for riders who have to finish an A-to-B stretch during rainstorms or when the blizzard hits the Chinese capital again. If this summer was any indication, the hot season here is also getting increasingly wet…
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