daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 19th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #961
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,974
Likes (Received): 836

When i was in Beijing, the low percentage of trolleybuses compared to diesel buses surprised me, considering Beijing's horrible air quality. Why don't they replace more diesel buses with trolleybuses? It would a relatively small investment compared to the reduction of toxic exhaust fumes within the city.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 20th, 2012, 08:42 PM   #962
ina555
Registered User
 
ina555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beijing
Posts: 464
Likes (Received): 40

I think almost all buses in Beijing are electric, not diesel.
ina555 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #963
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,974
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by ina555 View Post
I think almost all buses in Beijing are electric, not diesel.
Really? You know a site where I can read more about this?
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2012, 12:19 AM   #964
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Most buses are diesel, though CNG and LNG buses are also well represented.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2012, 02:36 PM   #965
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Electrical buses will require the spider web like overhead wires that's gonna clog the area above Beijing's roads, especially the very wide ones. It's never gonna return that's for sure, I'm convinced that CNG electric hybrid and capacitor electric are the way to go.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2012, 03:27 PM   #966
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Modern wiring technology can make the wires look very clean and pleasant. People normally don't bat an eyelid when it's tram wires yet are horrified at the prospect of trolleybus wires. Capacitor buses still suffer from power problems - aircon + 50km/h+ running usually means a 2-minute charge at every single bus stop, and any hybrid buses still rely on fossil fuels. In the medium term trolleybuses are still the most reliable and more environmentally friendly, and represent best value for money.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2012, 12:56 PM   #967
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Well during the Expo the capacitor buses run the route connecting the parks on both sides of the Huangpu, they carry a full load of people, AC blasting cold air, and going up and down the under river tunnel, yet it still only takes less than 30 seconds to charge. Tram overhead wire is probably acceptable because the number of lines will be limited, and it usually travels on dedicated track so it won't cross the roads very often. Once you have the wire going all over the place, as electric buses will be doing, it becomes an eyesore. BTW Nanjing is currently planning a new tram at its Hexi New Area and it'll use Siemen's capacitor-electric design.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2012, 01:12 PM   #968
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Trams networks in continental European cities can just be as complex - to be fair the only difference between tram and trolleybus wires is one instead of two, which I personally don't find a big deal.

There were 3 batches of buses operating in the Expo site - diesel ones on Longhua Road East (Puxi side), capacitor buses on the Expo Avenue and battery buses going accross the river. Buses usually stopped twice at each bus stop, once for alighting and once for boarding, which helped mask the amount of time needed to charge the capacitors up.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2012, 04:21 PM   #969
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,302
Likes (Received): 538

More wires are really not going to be a problem in Beijing, anyhow there are plenty of trolleybuses here already (all with batteries I believe). A hybrid of capacitor and trolleybus might perhaps be a good idea.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2012, 06:34 PM   #970
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
More wires are really not going to be a problem in Beijing, anyhow there are plenty of trolleybuses here already (all with batteries I believe). A hybrid of capacitor and trolleybus might perhaps be a good idea.
That would be a sensible thing. Capacitor technology is effective enough when used for short stretches, and IIRC capacitors are longer lasting and more environmentally friendly than batteries.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #971
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,302
Likes (Received): 538

Or one day this thing, though frankly I doubt its effectiveness, even if they got it to work. But it would get rid of some cables.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #972
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Or one day this thing, though frankly I doubt its effectiveness, even if they got it to work. But it would get rid of some cables.
Bombardier already has this technology and proposed to the Nanjing Hexi tram line but lost to Siemens due to extremely high construction and maintenance cost.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 01:10 AM   #973
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,595
Likes (Received): 5955

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Trams networks in continental European cities can just be as complex - to be fair the only difference between tram and trolleybus wires is one instead of two, which I personally don't find a big deal.

There were 3 batches of buses operating in the Expo site - diesel ones on Longhua Road East (Puxi side), capacitor buses on the Expo Avenue and battery buses going accross the river. Buses usually stopped twice at each bus stop, once for alighting and once for boarding, which helped mask the amount of time needed to charge the capacitors up.
What is the big deal? If Vienna can afford to have its big tram network, all parts with plain regular and not even fancy looking overhead cables, I guess any Chinese city could as well. If you invest into fancy looking overhead cable systems I would even consider it a gain for the street view.

Trolleybuses cause a slightly bigger mess in the air as their overhead system is quite a bit more complex. But still, I don't understand the fuss people make about it.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 07:39 AM   #974
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,302
Likes (Received): 538

I was in Tongzhou and got an update on rail extensions there.

The R1 express metro line is happening, mostly along the Batong line, but with some interesting exceptions. In the old centre it is diverging from Batong connecting to the current Tongzhou Railway Station, the future Beijing East high-speed railway station, instead before re-joining the Batong line. Then it will diverge south in the direction towards Yizhuang for the terminus. The Batong line will be extended with three more stations in the same direction as before (towards the south-east).

Interestingly both R1 and metro 6 will branch. Metro 6 will have 4 more stations in the direction of Songzhuang, while the R1 branch will serve New Tongzhou with another 3 stations. Both branches of R1 seem to have three stations, but then reportedly there will only be two stations to Tiananmen (the intermediate one presumably being Guomao or thereabout). In other words six stations in Tongzhou, and then only two in East Beijing. I don't know about the western part of R1.

This is a good model, and one I like for bus network as well. Part express with just a few stops maybe 5 km apart, with branch lines at either or both ends serving the local community, maybe just 300-500 meters between stations (obviously longer for an express metro than for busses). In smaller towns and cities only one or a handful interchange stations are needed, but for Beijing the number would likely be more like 40-50. If each bus pass a number of these it should be possible to get from where you are to where you want to be with a single transfer to another bus or the metro system.

The suburban S6 is on track to be opened in 2014. It will have four stops in Tongzhou, interchanging with all other lines except the regular Batong line, as well as unknown stops in Haidian, Shunyi, Yizhuan and both Capital Airport and Daxing/Langfang Airport. (The last may be a later extension, given that there will be no such airport in 2014, and Yizhuang is set up as end stop elsewhere).
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #975
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

4.28 Beijing Subway reached record volume at daily ride of 8.391 million

The highest volumed 3 lines are:

line 1: 1.6 million
line 2: 1.5 million
line 4: 1.2 million

Source
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #976
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5751

It would be interesting to know the ridership statistics for some of the other lines, especially the ones that don't go downtown like the Changping and Fangshan lines.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2012, 02:11 AM   #977
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,302
Likes (Received): 538

Maybe then for the full year (or at least a month), since this holiday weekend is filled with Beijingers leaving town, and visitors entering it.

Also wonder how they counted line riders. The locals using Yikatong would register both point of entry and exit (though not the route taken between them), not sure if the single ticket does the same. Did they count pick point of entry, or exit, or deducing the most likely route between them? They clearly have real-time statistics, so ridership during the day would be interesting as well (though which hours to avoid is pretty clear already).
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #978
saiho
Registered User
 
saiho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 多伦多/多倫多
Posts: 1,357
Likes (Received): 1290

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
It would be interesting to know the ridership statistics for some of the other lines, especially the ones that don't go downtown like the Changping and Fangshan lines.
here you go
Line 1: 1.6047 million
Line 2: 1.5129 million
Line 4/Daxing: 1.231 million
Line 5: 1.0374 million
Line 8: 155,900
Line 9: 46,300
Line 10: 1.0412 million
Line 13: 870,400
Line 15: 207,600
Batong Line: 349,100
Changping Line: 126,200
Fangshan Line: 33,900
Airport Line: 36,800
Yizhuang Line: 137 500

Source

Last edited by saiho; May 4th, 2012 at 07:39 PM. Reason: forgot quote
saiho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2012, 11:05 PM   #979
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,974
Likes (Received): 836

Per day? Wow!
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #980
CarlosBlueDragon
CarlosRedDragon
 
CarlosBlueDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/HK
Posts: 1,848
Likes (Received): 678

When will subway line 6 in beijing be open??
__________________
||CHINA|||
说:
> 同一个世界
> 同一个做夢
> 同一个中国
(同一个北京)(同一个上海)(同一个天津)(同一个广州)(同一个深圳)(同一个重庆)(同一个杭州)(同一个南京)(同一个沈陽)(同一个武汉)(同一个成都)(同一个長春)(同一个长沙)(同一个苏州)(同一个无锡)(同一个扬州)(同一个西安)(同一个吉林)(同一个青島)(同一个大连)(同一个厦门)(同一个潮州)(同一个高州)(同一个香港)(同一个澳門)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I LoVe ChInA
CarlosBlueDragon no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
beijing, metro

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium