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Old April 13th, 2013, 08:47 PM   #1221
saiho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Soviet trains are actually narrower than 2.70 m, I'd say 2.60. Like trains on our favorite Shanghai line 8.

In Moscow, and I guess Beijing I. The 1950-1960s had already been a huge city, so in Moscow they have always been stations that were 160m long to accommodate a 8-car train.
I heard that the secton between Fuxingmen and Sihui East on line 1 (old Fuba line) can support 8 car B size trains but the older section between Pingguoyuan and Nanlishilu (first section of the Beijing subway) can only handle 6 B cars. Then for some reason the new urban lines (4,5,8,9, and 10) just decided to use 6 car trains, probably for interoperability.

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Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Why do you say Shanghai trains on line 1 and 2 are "just" 176 m long as each car is 23.58 m long and probably tail cars are a bit longer?
I have seen in reports that the car is 22m long but i have also seen 22.5m and 23m as the length but not 23.5m. I think the discrepancy is when if they count the articulation or not. I know the platforms are 190 meters long but usually there is some leftover space on the platform. So the train has to be shorter than 190m. I used a simple calculation of 22x8 to figure out the approx length of 176m but cab cars are longer and I have not factored that into the calculation.

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These trains are just fantastic. Does anyone have any internal photos? China is developing a great sense of aesthetics like Japan and South Korea. These trains are much better than HK's MTR trains too. Well done China!
Apparently it looks like this but its strange cause its not all pink and stuff but is pretty anyways.
Source


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Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
I think Japanese and Korean metro trains have nothing to do with aesthetics.
but IMO the best looking... ironically.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 11:24 PM   #1222
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Quote:
I have seen in reports that the car is 22m long but i have also seen 22.5m and 23m as the length but not 23.5m. I think the discrepancy is when if they count the articulation or not. I know the platforms are 190 meters long but usually there is some leftover space on the platform. So the train has to be shorter than 190m. I used a simple calculation of 22x8 to figure out the approx length of 176m but cab cars are longer and I have not factored that into the calculation.
Sorry for off-topic but I've seen a figure of 23,586 m. Anyway, articulations have to be taken into account, too, as they are parts of cars and they can accomodate people.

Some stations in Shanghai are SHORTER than trains, like on line 2.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 05:28 AM   #1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Sorry for off-topic but I've seen a figure of 23,586 m. Anyway, articulations have to be taken into account, too, as they are parts of cars and they can accomodate people.

Some stations in Shanghai are SHORTER than trains, like on line 2.
I've done some research and found the Chinese Wiki on loading gauges. For a 6 car type A consist, the length of the train is 142m. Link For a 8 car Type A consist according to the Chinese Guangzhou metro line 13 page (of all places but good for them in picking future proof loading gauges) is 185.6m. Link Now the loading gauges page states that Type A cars are 24-21m long (everyone's guesses fall under that range) assuming the 24m is for the cab cars that means 24*2+4*x=142 x=23.5 and 24*2+6*x=185.6 x=22.9. the the range is 23.5m to 23m. While on Chinese railcar Manufacturer websites state the length is 22m. Like a said before I think the difference is in whether the articulation is counted or not. when CNR/CSR are fabricating the train body-shells the machinists don't care about the length of the whole train they just need to cut metal to the length they where told to cut it and the articulations get plopped on afterward. I think they wanted to standardize the metalworking process to nice round numbers. Anyways 1-1.5m is fairly reasonable length for an articulation.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 11:06 PM   #1224
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According to the file I posted in the Shanghai thread last year stations operate both A and B trains should have a platform length of 200m, I guess that must includes the maintenance sections hidden behind barriers at each end of the station.

http://lyndyw.files.wordpress.com/20...9b564518b.jpeg
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 01:10 AM   #1225
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At first I had a hard time believing it but after taking a random sample of subway station construction sites around china... It's true all station boxes for A and B size trains are 200m long. That means in the long run with some ingenuous station engineering you could possibly run 200m long trains everywhere in china.

Last edited by saiho; April 23rd, 2013 at 03:41 AM.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:00 AM   #1226
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Line 16 will use 8-car A Type train

This is from today's news. Line 16 is a U/C line opening in 2016. It's said the 8-car A Type train will increase capacity by 70%+ than 6-car B Type train.

Line 16:
40.2km, 24 stations (including 13 interchange stations)
Running crossing Haidian, Xicheng and Fengtai districts
Opening by the end of 2016
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:49 AM   #1227
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I haven't seen that all the stations can accommodate 200 m trains. In many cases (that's true both for Beijing and Shanghai) they are built not to accommodate the existing number of cars, and beyond that there's just a little space for technical reasons.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #1228
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BEIJING | Line 14











http://beijing.china.org.cn/2013-04/...t_28634285.htm
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Old April 26th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #1229
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impressive subway....
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Old April 26th, 2013, 04:33 AM   #1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
I haven't seen that all the stations can accommodate 200 m trains. In many cases (that's true both for Beijing and Shanghai) they are built not to accommodate the existing number of cars, and beyond that there's just a little space for technical reasons.
The completed platform is the length of the train but the actual excavated station box is 200m long. So that means if in theory you could move all the maintenance areas/ventaliation rooms/etc. somewhere else on the station then you could perhaps run up to 200m long trains.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:22 AM   #1231
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Still no escalators? I thought Beijing was constructing A grade subway already.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 08:54 AM   #1232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
The completed platform is the length of the train but the actual excavated station box is 200m long. So that means if in theory you could move all the maintenance areas/ventaliation rooms/etc. somewhere else on the station then you could perhaps run up to 200m long trains.
I don't think this might be true. Here, in Moscow we have 155m trains this is the longest. Platforms are 160-165 meters but when they Re built, the excavated box is some 250 m or even more. And all this space is being used.

In this case, it is such a poity that on Shanghai line 6 they decided to use no more than 4 cars per train.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 02:59 AM   #1233
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It's weird that didn't just plan the entire system for 10 car a-trains since it's only gonna grow busier in the future.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #1234
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It's weird that didn't just plan the entire system for 10 car a-trains since it's only gonna grow busier in the future.
Yes, some very short-sighted behavior... or does anyone know a logical explanation for this (besides saving a tiny bit of money in the short run)?
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Old April 29th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #1235
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(besides saving a tiny bit of money in the short run)?
I think that is the entire reason. Or Chinese authorities in the beginning didn't have a good grasp of how well the subway will be used. Nowadays new lines are being planned to be more future proof. Several metro lines in Chongqing and Wuhan plan to sport A size trains.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #1236
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I think the Chinese authorities held on to the belief that more lines, more coverage, thereby spreading commuter traffic. The construction of Line 6, which is consistently mentioned by the media as a line to relieve Line 1, reinforces that.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #1237
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If the ticket price increased from 2 RMB to e.g. 10 RMB we would see a significant drop in ridership.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:32 PM   #1238
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If the ticket price increased from 2 RMB to e.g. 10 RMB we would see a significant drop in ridership.


First, there will be riots.
Second, there will be purges.
Third, ridership?
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:39 PM   #1239
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Quote:
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I think the Chinese authorities held on to the belief that more lines, more coverage, thereby spreading commuter traffic. The construction of Line 6, which is consistently mentioned by the media as a line to relieve Line 1, reinforces that.
According to expansion plans announced in January 2011, the subway network in 2015 is expected to reach track density of 0.51 km per km2 (0.82 mi per sq. mi.) inside the Fifth Ring Road where residents would on average have to walk 1 km (0.62 mi) to the nearest subway station.[52]

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing...y#Future_lines
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Old May 1st, 2013, 08:04 AM   #1240
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Shanghai tickets go from 3 to 10 RMB. Poor Beijingers walk or ride a bike, rich Beijingers drive or are chauffeur-driven, of the rest the poorer take the bus (0.4+ RMB per ride), the richer metro (2 RMB per ride). The fare used to be 3+ RMB in Beijing, when the network was much smaller, and the RMB was worth a lot more, than today. The traffic is price sensitive, if the prices go up the number of riders will go down significantly.

I don't think today's low fares are viable long term, but they should be lower than most other systems, it is much cheaper to transport many passengers than just a few. Long term it would make sense to have a rush hour surcharge of maybe 25%.
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