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Old June 17th, 2013, 01:20 PM   #1321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.

A bit long, still.

Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.

Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?
Can't really compare the Yamanote line or the Beijing Subway lines to line 22 in Shanghai - the Jinshan line only has 9 stations on it and isn't really a metro line, more an express commuter line. To have a "rapid" rail link in Tokyo, one should look at the Chuo Rapid, or even better the longer distance lines like the Tsukuba Express (which is probably the most comparable at 58.4km long, 20 stations and taking 45 minutes).

Beijing probably does, in the future, require a faster rail system to supplement the metro if travel times are approaching those sort of lengths, though.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 05:07 PM   #1322
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There are the R-series lines under planning





I'd say they should start building these after 2015 and completing most of them by 2020. By then they could run out of money and move on to cheaper S series lines. Except S6 thats pretty much a metro line.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.

A bit long, still.

Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.

Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?
It's a loop line, so you will never need to travel more than half of it, if that.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 05:51 AM   #1324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.

A bit long, still.

Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.

Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?
you can't compare Beijing Line 1 with Shanghai line 22. Shanghai Line 22 is a commuter rail running by CRH with less stops . Beijing has been increasing Line 1 speed and frequency before so I guess it doesn't have much room for further improvement.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #1325
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Shanghai line 2 is almost 64 km long and it takes 1:38 form one end to the other (personal experience).
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Old June 18th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #1326
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Maybe a new BJ subway line

Just curious if there is a subway line plan like this.

In this way, there can be an option to:

1.) combine lines from the northwest part of line 4 to line 9
2.) line 4 can be made straight north to south line
3.) another horizontal line can be made by combining the remaining horizontal line 4 section

This should increase capacity as well as efficiency in lines 4 and 9 as they travel more or less in straight lines.

Just a thought


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Old June 19th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #1327
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Beijing is the second longest rapid transit network in the world after Seoul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems
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Old June 19th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #1328
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Metro network.

If you look at the list it will only count the networks that belong to the Metro operator(s) of each city.
If you would count all local rail based transport within each city, the list would've looked differently.
The list is somewhat misleading in the sense that some cities have huge networks besides their metro, and some cities use metro as a suburban train.
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Old June 20th, 2013, 06:28 AM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
Beijing is the second longest rapid transit network in the world after Seoul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems
Whatever Beijing will surpass Seoul by 2016 based on current construction.
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Old June 20th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #1330
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Never heard of Seoul being the largest... Is it pure metro or commuter trains included?
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Old June 20th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #1331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Never heard of Seoul being the largest... Is it pure metro or commuter trains included?
probably included the commuter trains.. if you look the Seoul lines it include many commuter lines to far flung areas.
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Old June 20th, 2013, 01:54 PM   #1332
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As I said, the list only includes the lines that are operated by the metro operator(s) of each city.

Since the metro in Seoul also is used as a commuter train, yes that is counted.
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Old June 20th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #1333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.

A bit long, still.

Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.

Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?
The subway that's 57km long and 45 stations is Beijing Line 10, not line 1.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 04:45 AM   #1334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
As I said, the list only includes the lines that are operated by the metro operator(s) of each city.

Since the metro in Seoul also is used as a commuter train, yes that is counted.
Is it Tokyo who has the largest network if all operators being counted? Rapid transit network should count all commuter rails by all operators imo.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 06:31 AM   #1335
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I disagree. Commuter rails are not grade separated so they are not really at metro standard. They are short intercity rail.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 02:14 PM   #1336
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Quote:
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Is it Tokyo who has the largest network if all operators being counted? Rapid transit network should count all commuter rails by all operators imo.
It would surprise me if any city had more passengers than Tokyo. For length I'm not sure.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 03:02 PM   #1337
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Is it Tokyo who has the largest network if all operators being counted? Rapid transit network should count all commuter rails by all operators imo.
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a network larger than Tokyo, yes. With 40 million journeys on the rail network every day, 882 stations on 121 lines with 30 different operators I can't think of any that come close - the next in line would be the Kansai Metro Area I believe. As for more passengers, there isn't a city with more, simple as that. No other network carries anything close to 40 million journeys in one day on average.

The thing is, the commuter rail networks in Tokyo can sometimes be even more frequent than some of the metro lines - the Keio line, Tokyu lines (especially the Toyoko line), a lot of JR lines (including the Chuo rapid, Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku etc), Seibu and some Tobu lines all have amazing frequencies and carry a LOT of passengers. Not only that, but these lines are not particularly "long" by Chinese standards in all cases - the Toyoko line is only 24.2km long with 21 stations and carrying well over a million per day with an absolute minimum frequency of 5 minutes on local only stations (but generally around 3 minutes for other stations according to the timetable). This really does make it hard to separate from a "metro" really especially given service frequency and distances between stations.

But anyway, this esoteric debate can be continued in the Japanese transport thread as there are some very knowledgable people there who can answer your questions.

The hyperbole about having the biggest metro system and best this or that does not make a good transport network. Being able to effectively move large numbers of people as painlessly and quickly as possible around a city is the true mark of a good system. I think the growth of the Beijing and Shanghai metro systems in particular is astounding, but the true measure is how well they can assist people in getting to where they want to be. My tiny city of Stockholm has a small metro system, but it is well patronised relative to population and our modal split is especially good for a western, developed city. These are, therefore, marks of success of our transport system rather than size.

Last edited by Svartmetall; June 21st, 2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 04:08 PM   #1338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Not only that, but these lines are not particularly "long" by Chinese standards in all cases - the Toyoko line is only 24.2km long with 21 stations and carrying well over a million per day with an absolute minimum frequency of 5 minutes on local only stations (but generally around 3 minutes for other stations according to the timetable). This really does make it hard to separate from a "metro" really especially given service frequency and distances between stations.

But anyway, this esoteric debate can be continued in the Japanese transport thread as there are some very knowledgable people there who can answer your questions.

The hyperbole about having the biggest metro system and best this or that does not make a good transport network. Being able to effectively move large numbers of people as painlessly and quickly as possible around a city is the true mark of a good system. I think the growth of the Beijing and Shanghai metro systems in particular is astounding, but the true measure is how well they can assist people in getting to where they want to be. My tiny city of Stockholm has a small metro system, but it is well patronised relative to population and our modal split is especially good for a western, developed city. These are, therefore, marks of success of our transport system rather than size.
Please, post it there, too! I'd like to discuss it.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:41 AM   #1339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
The thing is, the commuter rail networks in Tokyo can sometimes be even more frequent than some of the metro lines - the Keio line, Tokyu lines (especially the Toyoko line), a lot of JR lines (including the Chuo rapid, Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku etc), Seibu and some Tobu lines all have amazing frequencies and carry a LOT of passengers.
I do find it funny how the Toyoko line has 4 trains/hr that short turn in Shibuya which means that Toyoko line has a higher frequency than the Fukutoshin "subway" line that it through operates with. That being said Japan is more of an extreme exception than a rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Not only that, but these lines are not particularly "long" by Chinese standards in all cases - the Toyoko line is only 24.2km long with 21 stations and carrying well over a million per day with an absolute minimum frequency of 5 minutes on local only stations (but generally around 3 minutes for other stations according to the timetable). This really does make it hard to separate from a "metro" really especially given service frequency and distances between stations.

The hyperbole about having the biggest metro system and best this or that does not make a good transport network. Being able to effectively move large numbers of people as painlessly and quickly as possible around a city is the true mark of a good system. I think the growth of the Beijing and Shanghai metro systems in particular is astounding, but the true measure is how well they can assist people in getting to where they want to be. My tiny city of Stockholm has a small metro system, but it is well patronised relative to population and our modal split is especially good for a western, developed city. These are, therefore, marks of success of our transport system rather than size.
Actually the Stockholm tunnelbana is actually quite extensive (100km) in size for a metropolitan population of ~2 million.
But Beijing and Shanghai metros are carrying insane amounts of people for their age and the ridership growth is phenomenal. These systems are relatively young and have already taken on the world by storm. It took Tokyo at least 70 years to reach what it has today. Plus there are the potential mega systems forming in the Yangtze and Pearl River Deltas over the next 30 years that can give Tokyo and Keihanshin a run for their money. Heck even the local rail systems of Tianjin (Z series lines under planning) and Beijing (S series lines) might touch.

Last edited by saiho; June 22nd, 2013 at 07:00 AM.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 12:20 PM   #1340
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But Beijing and Shanghai metros are carrying insane amounts of people for their age and the ridership growth is phenomenal. These systems are relatively young and have already taken on the world by storm. It took Tokyo at least 70 years to reach what it has today. Plus there are the potential mega systems forming in the Yangtze and Pearl River Deltas over the next 30 years that can give Tokyo and Keihanshin a run for their money. Heck even the local rail systems of Tianjin (Z series lines under planning) and Beijing (S series lines) might touch.
Tianjin and Beijing HAVE a rail connection. Have had for over a century.

The thing is, it is neglected. Train number 6451 makes 7 stops between Beijing and Tianjin North. Huangcun, Weishanzhuang, Anding, Langfang North, Laofa, Douzhangzhuang, Yangcun.

But the problem is, it is the only train daily. No other train between Beijing and Tianjin North has more than 2 intermediate stops.

And 6451 takes 3:33 for mere 133 km. So under 40 km/h.

What is getting done to ensure fast, frequent and easily memorizable service to suburban stations like Weishanzhuang?
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