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Old December 30th, 2013, 08:54 AM   #1541
_Night City Dream_
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Well, our commuter lines in Moscow are almost all grade-separated. Within city administrative limits there are over 220 km of tracks, so in addition to metro tracks that are 314 km long it makes 543 km..

If we approve this method, Tokyo seems to overcome any city by far making several thousands of km.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #1542
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Trolleybuses are. To so good in terms of costs and value for money. Beijing had better develop a large tram system that is able to carry much more passengers. The only advantage of a trolley is over a bus is that it is environmentally friendly. However, if we take into account the way the energy for it is produced, we'll see that it is not the case as China's till has mostly coal fired stations.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 09:10 AM   #1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xizhimen View Post
Beijing is bigger than Shanghai in area,and soon will even be bigger in population,Beijing's subway expansion is fastest currently in China,very soon Beijing will fulfill its goal to be No.1.
Beijing is bigger than Shanghai only administratively but the built-up area of Shanghai is bigger, do not forget Puxi (when you leave Hongqiao and going to the Bund, you see almost 16 km of a very dense built-up area). Shanghai is much more developed, it is more modern yet it has some strong historic places, it is cleaner and more harmonious, I'd say.

If we get back to metro system, Beijing subway serves the downtown very poorly while extending lines into outskirts and suburbs. Meanwhile Downtown Shanghai being far much denser ant more developed than Beijing, is very well served by many lines of its metro running through.

When I'm in Shanghai I have dozens of variants how to get to any place. In Beijing very often there is only one variant. That is why transfer stations are so overcrowded in Beijing.

Traffic jams in Shanghai do not almost exist even in rush hour if we compare it to all the other large cities of the world, considering that Shanghai has got loads of cars. In Bejing traffic is awful.

Shanghai features unmatched road surface quality often much better than you find anywhere in Germany while in Beijing there are pits, cuts, damaged asphalt very often.

And then, while many believe it does but Beijing doesn't have much history. If you want to see really something ancient, you have to go to Hangzhou, Nanjing, or Xi'an. But Beijing actually doesn't offer more history than Shanghai. Lots of old communities were torn down and replaced by replicas of hutongs.
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Last edited by _Night City Dream_; December 30th, 2013 at 09:17 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #1544
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Did the Line 8 extensions open on the 28th? I am assuming they did but not seeing any news here...
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Old December 30th, 2013, 10:51 AM   #1545
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Yes it opened on 28th. Pics taken yesterday from ditiezu

Nan Luoguoxiang Station







Shichahai Station











Pingxifu Station





Yuzhi Rd Station





Zhuxinzhuang Station





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Old December 30th, 2013, 06:31 PM   #1546
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Is there a reason National Art Museum station has not opened?

Also, at Zhuxinzhuang, is it a cross-platform transfer both from a terminating Line 8 train onto Nanshao-bound Changping Line train AND from Xierqi-bound Changping Line train onto Line 8? Or is the cross-platform transfer for only one of these?
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Old December 30th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Trolleybuses are. To so good in terms of costs and value for money. Beijing had better develop a large tram system that is able to carry much more passengers. The only advantage of a trolley is over a bus is that it is environmentally friendly. However, if we take into account the way the energy for it is produced, we'll see that it is not the case as China's till has mostly coal fired stations.
Well you get efficiencies in energy use with electric motors. So a coal power plant feeding a trolley network will still use less Joules of energy per passenger kilometer than a diesel bus. In addition you get economies of scale you can retrofit the coal plants with scrubbers, participators and desulfurizators. How can cram all that tech in a bus? Let alone 200 of them.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 08:35 AM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Is there a reason National Art Museum station has not opened?
Art Museum station is one of the most difficult stations to build. It's located in the heart of Beijing; There are complicated pipelines running underground; Line 6 is running thru nearby.

So it could open by the end of 2015, or even by 2017.



Quote:
Also, at Zhuxinzhuang, is it a cross-platform transfer both from a terminating Line 8 train onto Nanshao-bound Changping Line train AND from Xierqi-bound Changping Line train onto Line 8? Or is the cross-platform transfer for only one of these?
at Zhuxinzhuang 2 tracks of Line 8 are located in the middle; 2 tracks of Changping line are located separately on two sides of the station. so,

Xierqi-bound -> Line 8, cross platform
Nanshao-bound -> Line 8, take escalator to other side of platform
Line 8 -> Nanshao-bound, cross platform
Line 8 -> Xierqi-bound, take escalator to other side of platform


Last edited by big-dog; December 31st, 2013 at 08:42 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 01:19 AM   #1549
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Beijing subway transported over 3.2 billion passengers in 2013, an increase of nearly 30%

Beijing subway annual ridership hits 3.209 billion in 2013. Possibility making it the busiest metro system in the world.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #1550
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Beijing metro 1983

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr
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Old January 5th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Beijing subway transported over 3.2 billion passengers in 2013, an increase of nearly 30%

Beijing subway annual ridership hits 3.209 billion in 2013. Possibility making it the busiest metro system in the world.
Still below Seoul. Maybe in 2014 it'll become the world's busiest. Beware of Shanghai though!
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Old January 6th, 2014, 12:15 AM   #1552
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Fishy

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Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Still below Seoul. Maybe in 2014 it'll become the world's busiest. Beware of Shanghai though!
Seoul looks fishy. Last week it was not like that. It just got changed today with a new 2012 stat. The source looks like its adding the ridership of Lines 1-9 (Metro) and all (Korail) commuter lines. Korail has been added today.

Korail = 1.02 billion
Seoul Metro = 2.56 billion
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Old January 19th, 2014, 07:56 AM   #1553
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Line 6 and 7 trains

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Old January 19th, 2014, 11:52 PM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Seoul looks fishy. Last week it was not like that. It just got changed today with a new 2012 stat. The source looks like its adding the ridership of Lines 1-9 (Metro) and all (Korail) commuter lines. Korail has been added today.

Korail = 1.02 billion
Seoul Metro = 2.56 billion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_s...assenger_rides

Beijing Subway 3209 million 2013
Seoul Metropolitan Subway 2560 million 2012
Shanghai Metro 2500 million 2013
Moscow Metro 2464 million 2012
Tokyo Metro 2270 million FY2011
Guangzhou Metro (including FMetro) 1851 million 2012
New York City Subway 1655 million 2012
Mexico City Metro 1609 million 2012
Hong Kong Mass Transit Railway 1553 million 2012
Paris Métro 1541 million 2012
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Old January 20th, 2014, 06:37 AM   #1555
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These figures are skewed as they do not factor in commuter rail, eg RER
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Old January 20th, 2014, 08:15 AM   #1556
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Yes. All those numbers are interesting on a per company basis, not city basis.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 04:10 PM   #1557
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The whole comparison thing is fishy. Why separate TOEI and Tokyo Metro? It does not tell anything about rail transport within a city and/or effectiveness of public transport within that urban area given in Tokyo only 20% or so of all rail travel is by metro, the other 80% is by the private and JR lines. Coupled with that, it is heavily skewed towards cities where the metro is the only form of rapid transport, whilst neglecting those cities that have two highly effective forms of rail transport (Berlin U + S bahn for example). Also, why separate the Seoul metro system? It carries 3.58 billion per year on the system as a whole, and 469 stations out of 615 are true metro stations, not commuter rail/korail.

So for now, lets just say that who cares which metro system has the largest number of passengers? Beijing is expanding rapidly, the metro looks amazing and the line lengths are impressive. It's also good that they're starting to expand an S-bahn style service for the city too so that far-flung commuters have a fast way to the city.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 08:31 PM   #1558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
It does not tell anything about rail transport within a city and/or effectiveness of public transport within that urban area
Yes, it does not tell about overall rail transport but there is nothing wrong in that. This list is meant only for "metro systems" and will therefore present numbers only for metro systems. One can create a list for "urban rail" system for a better picture but suggesting inclusion of other rails systems in this list is not a good idea.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 08:17 AM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
Yes, it does not tell about overall rail transport but there is nothing wrong in that. This list is meant only for "metro systems" and will therefore present numbers only for metro systems. One can create a list for "urban rail" system for a better picture but suggesting inclusion of other rails systems in this list is not a good idea.
Well, yes and no. The definition of a metro system is highly arbitrary and a lot of systems fall into a grey area. Examples like the Berlin and Hamburg S-bahn systems are quite good. They possess nearly all the hallmarks of a metro system but are not counted as metro systems. Yet, Stockholm and Munich metro systems have extensive line branching (so two lines sharing the same track) more in line with commuter rail, but they are metro systems. Cleveland RTA (red line) is a metro system despite its service frequency (every 15 minutes). The Chicago El has level crossings etc etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. This is why I say it's a bit of a strange argument.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 08:44 AM   #1560
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Well, yes and no. The definition of a metro system is highly arbitrary and a lot of systems fall into a grey area. Examples like the Berlin and Hamburg S-bahn systems are quite good. They possess nearly all the hallmarks of a metro system but are not counted as metro systems. Yet, Stockholm and Munich metro systems have extensive line branching (so two lines sharing the same track) more in line with commuter rail, but they are metro systems. Cleveland RTA (red line) is a metro system despite its service frequency (every 15 minutes). The Chicago El has level crossings etc etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. This is why I say it's a bit of a strange argument.
It's a logical and coherent argument it illustrates how complex and contradictory reality is and how it defies our ability to define or even comprehend it at times. There is no such thing as a definition that is so absolute that it can be applied to all things, all the time , everywhere. In effect there can be no clear definition of metro systems that can satisfy everybody.
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