Which is more "Northeastern" DC/Baltimore, or Buffalo/Rochester?

[Navy_JAG]

Originally Posted by scando

I live in Baltimore, right next to Robert E Lee Park, right up the road from a monument to Lee and Stonewall Jackson and right down the road from two old plantations, one of which is still owned by its antebellum family. My guess is that you wouldn't find that in Buffalo and Rochester. Case closed.

What does any of that have to do with the Northeast?? Also, you mentioned in a later post that you couldn't find grasslands in Rochester or Buffalo. Have you ever actually been to Upstate NY? It's full of farmland. Once you leave the immediate metro area you can find some of the most desolate nature-lover's type scenery in the country.

[ROCguy]

Yeah, but I think he means flat. Upstate NY is anything but flat, except for right on the Lake Erie and Lake Ontario shoreline. But you are right, if anyone thinks that there are no wide open green area of Upstate NY they are retarded.

[StevenW]

LOL :

[sargeantcm]

Originally Posted by scando

I live in Baltimore, right next to Robert E Lee Park, right up the road from a monument to Lee and Stonewall Jackson...wouldn't find that in Buffalo and Rochester. Case closed.

We (Buffalo) have a very significant piece of Civil War history as well, being a major "station" on the underground railroad. Harriet Tubman's route went through here, in fact there's a street named after her, and some attraction I saw on TV once in Niagara Falls where you actually get to follow the path they took to the Canadian border. That doesn't make Buffalo southern (we may say "pop", but fortunately not "y'all"), as the underground railroad was also a southern feature.

[ROCguy]

I know what show you are talking about!!! Secrets of Niagara falls on the travel channel. Did you see the "Secrets of Buffalo" show on there, you'd be jumping up and down while watching it!... Oh yeah, and Pop is definitely a Northern/great lakes thing, they don't say pop in the South... but they do, unfortunetly say... y'all. So glad Rochester/ Buffalo, the whole northern half of the country doesn't say yall.

[StevenW]

LOL, youz guys trip me out. Y'all are so funny. Ya, I remember all those funny soundin' accents. I've lived in the south, (still do currently), I've lived in Upper Michigan, Baltimore, Chi-town, all over the east, north east, south east south, including south Florida and western Florida and it's funny how people make fun of other region's accents and expressions. People down here in South Carolina sometimes, not all the time, laugh at the stereotypical accents of the north easterners, ie; that Bahston accent, that Bruklin accent, Baltimore's "Hon", and would laugh at the mid-westerner's accents and expressions. And when I lived up North, people laughed and made fun at the stereotypical southern twangy accents and expressions. I've come to learn that people are the same all over this country even though their accents may differ.
BTW, just in the past 15 years here in our community, from what I've just noticed, the traditional, old stereotyped yee-ha sounding majority has changed dramatically to a very diverse community of different ethnic and cultural populace thanks to the huge influx of northerners and mexicans. Yeah, sure, there is still allot of the southern cultured flare and all, and such, but nowhere like it used to be.
LOL

BTW, since I've lived in so MANY different places, my accents and expressions run into one another. LOL! I mean, my mouth/mind is SO messed up!

[Architorture]

ones more southish ones more midwest

[whosyourdaddy]

Originally Posted by NovaWolverine

I agree, outside of geography and hollywood, there are some similarities with SoCal.

Yeah I mean, if you really think about it, by the justifications for buffalo i've seen, it seems like Detroit or St Louis are more Northeastern than DC/Balt, but I still think Philly is the city that DC/Balt have some similarities to.

You're really pushing it there. Philly and DC are practically polar opposites.

Philly and DC have a lot in common?? How so?

I think that Buffalo/Rochester are more "NE" than DC/Baltimore. You can get NY style pizza in Buffalo/Rochester. Where would someone from NYC, Boston or Vermont experience less culture shock? Although Buffalo/Rochester are a lot smaller than NYC and Boston, i believe that the culture is a lot more similar to places that New Yorkers would frequent for weekend vacations.

DC (not quite so much for Baltimore) would have a work atmosphere that was closer to that of NY and Boston, although in the suburbs, the sprawl has a decidedly different attitude and "feel" to it over the "NE" feel in NYC, Boston or even upstate NY.

[bjfan82]

I voted "both"...there is no dispute whatsover that Buff/Roch are northeast - we are in the most classic northeastern state, how could we be Midwest if we touch the ocean. Argument over as far as Buff/Roch go. I also think DC/Baltimore are borderline fringe northeast only because I don't know where else to put them, and they are connected with the whole Megalopolis thing with NYC/Philly/Boston. So in conclusion, Buff/Roch are officially part of the northeast whereas DC/Baltimore are practically northeast.

[NovaWolverine]

Please someone tell me how DC and Philly are polar opposites. DC, B'more, and Philly have more in common IMO than Philly and NYC do. You leave the DTs, and the decadence and density is more low rise, in the form of row homes with porches and old townhomes, not high rise projects like NYC or Chicago. Even in DT, where Philly and DC admittedly don't have a lot in common, you see wider streets and little restaurants on the corner, and again, more low rise stuff. No where in this country but Chicago do you feel a scale close to NYC in DT.

Also, Philly, DC, and B'more have a much more "Black" feel than NYC, with the high black populations. They face the same types of issues within the black community and have had corrupt politicians and inefficient local gov'ts. And this black community is very prevalent when watching the news, similar to detroit or any other very black city out there. I can go on and on about this one, I know plenty of people in DC from Philly that despite the mall and DT, can go out into Northeast and SE and even parts of NW and say the same thing.

I agree with most else that everyone's said. Both areas are in between, and this isn't the civil war. The monuements and historic sites are simply not something that influences people that much these days enough to influence a city's culture. It's the south, maybe by old convention and with the mason dixon line, but as far as lifestyle and aesthetics are concerned, these areas are both NE in that sense.

The reason if I had to pick one, would choose, Rochester, is the growth. All the areas have grown, but I think DC/B'more has had much more and as a result sprawled, I think a lot of the areas in the North, maybe except NYC and Boston would have been progressive enough at an early time would have done something to curb sprawl if the area had the same growth. And DC/B'more unlike Charlotte and Atlanta, were players before the heavy growth, it's not like they just sprung up like the other two.

So Buffalo/Rochester, but I think the BoWash community so to speak acknowledges a relationship with DC and B'more. And do fit in with what's called the east coast.

[ROCguy]

The reason if I had to pick one, would choose, Rochester, is the growth.

Say what? What were you saying in that sentence. It doesn't make any gamatical sense. Not making fun at you because I do stuff like that all the time, just curious; what were you saying?

[NovaWolverine]

It does make grammatical sense. The comma before Rochester was accidental however. The reason, subject, is, verb, growth. It makes sense, but it's more the next sentences to see the the context.

Rochester and upstate has had modest growth, b'more and more specifically dc metro has had almost uncontrollable, growth, this is economy, home prices, population, everything. It's growth is more sun-belt like, not northeastern like. Seeing something seemingly good happen makes the gov't reluctant to step in and regulate it, but it comes to the point where it must be curbed and most places have done it way way too late and didn't have a good plan in the first place. Developers are making their money they don't care about how the growth is.

So that's why when people say they're both northeastern but the suburbs are more sun-belt, this is what they mean, it's the sprawl, the sprawl is what makes DC/B'more look more non-northeastern.

But I could have been clearer of course.

[BuffCity]

Buffalo is kinda midwestern in some ways, but it's heart is still very "yankee" and northeastern...it's a very old New York town.

Rochester would be the most Northeastern of all these in the subject, lots of NYC runoff and is very tied to the central region of the state, NYS. Northeastern yes.

Baltimore, yes about as Northeastern as Buffalo, except Baltimore is more of southern influence vs. Midwestern. I like the town but it's not as NE as people think.

Washington DC, hard to tell as people here are either southern from VA, or out of state types working in GOV't.

[ROCguy]

Originally Posted by NovaWolverine

It does make grammatical sense. The comma before Rochester was accidental however. The reason, subject, is, verb, growth. It makes sense, but it's more the next sentences to see the the context.

Rochester and upstate has had modest growth, b'more and more specifically dc metro has had almost uncontrollable, growth, this is economy, home prices, population, everything. It's growth is more sun-belt like, not northeastern like. Seeing something seemingly good happen makes the gov't reluctant to step in and regulate it, but it comes to the point where it must be curbed and most places have done it way way too late and didn't have a good plan in the first place. Developers are making their money they don't care about how the growth is.

So that's why when people say they're both northeastern but the suburbs are more sun-belt, this is what they mean, it's the sprawl, the sprawl is what makes DC/B'more look more non-northeastern.

But I could have been clearer of course.

oh ok, got it.

[atx001]

Originally Posted by ROCguy

I swear, if one more person uses the term "rustbelt" I'm gonna freak......(especially when talking about Rochester, which I am obviously sensitive about and actually, by most standards, isn't even conisdered "rust belt", but again, I don't use that term at all to describe any city...

Is it also not the same stereotype as the term "sunbelt city"? A term I've seen you use many times.
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I believe the the Washington DC/Baltimore area is a combination of the south and the north. I have seen elements of both in that area. Mid-Atlantic is a good term to describe it.

As for Buffalo/Rochester I think it is most definatly part of the northeast, more so than Washington DC and Baltimore. Geographically speaking those cities are pretty far north and relatively towards the east.

[ROCguy]

^ no, sunbelt isn't meant to be negative..... most people use it as a very posative way to describe cities of the south and southwest because of their warmer climates.

[scando]

Which is more northeastern in character? Baltimore isn't exactly true south but there is enough southerness that you know you're south of the Mason Dixon line (which, after all is the MD/PA/Del border). We've got Magnolia trees, Azaleas, long hot summers and just in case you're still not sure, just walk past the Baltimore Museum of Art and see who guards the museum. Well gollee, that's Bobby Lee and Stonewall Jackson. I bet you won't find these guys in Rochester.

[ROCguy]

lol, that is a good point. When it comes to the civil war, Rochester is very Frederick Douglas and "The North Star", and underground railroad. Lee and Jackson are the beasts from hell in Rochester.

[scando]

Originally Posted by ROCguy

lol, that is a good point. When it comes to the civil war, Rochester is very Frederick Douglas and "The North Star", and underground railroad. Lee and Jackson are the beasts from hell in Rochester.

Actually, while I don't take any of this north/south stuff very seriously, there are people around here who do and it's one of the very interesting things about life in MD that you can see so much of the leftovers of the civil war 140 years later. The neighborhood where Bobby Lee sits in bronze also has a memorial to confederate dead and another one to union dead. Both the very affluent, slick "Style" magazine and the irreverent, urban "City Paper" still feel the need to carry an article every other year or so debating whether we are north or south. Southern Living magazine not only gives us a discount but they have a special Maryland section every month.

With nearby born-again zealot, neo-confederate Virginians, Quakers, Amish, a Frederick Douglas museum under construction in the Baltimore harbor, a legacy musem of the first blood of the war (successionist riot after Lincoln's election) a couple blocks away, battlefields all over the region, John Wilkes Booth as a "home-boy", southern literary icon E A Poe as a local guy with a NFL team named after his famous poem and re-enactors on both sides who take this stuff as high seriousness, it's hard for the observant to get away from the Civil War for very long, even now

Nothern Virginia is trying to pave over what's left over from the war, but I can't get past the fact that I live one block from a park named after Saint Lee (who actually oversaw construction of the reservoir in that park when he was Army Corp of Engineers) and 1/2 mile from a union-sympathizer mansion burned by Jubal Early (his effort though, was late) and on the onetime property of an old plantation whose mansion is still occupied by it's ante-bellum family. Try as I might, I can't see that a person in Rochester would ever need to have this debate.

[BuffCity]

interesting thread.