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Old November 13th, 2005, 06:54 AM   #201
Dr.VitO
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nice
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Old November 13th, 2005, 06:01 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck
Why is the gap increasing?
Well although a skyline is more than just the 500+ foot buildings, this stat is an excellent indicator:

Since 1999 Chicago has added 15 500+ foot towers, with 4 more under construction.
Toronto has a TOTAL of 13 (14 if you want to include the CN Tower), with another 1 under construction.

To put it in simplest terms:
Chicago has built more 500 foot towers in the past 6 years than Toronto has in total.
Chicago has more 500 foot towers under construction than Toronto.
Chicago will likely continue this trend.

Toronto has a great skyline, but we really shouldn't try and compare ourselves to one so far out of our league.
Be happy with what we've got, be happy with the ways it's getting better, but don't be foolish and deceptive and think we're catching up to the Chicago goliath.
It ain't happening.


Again, I fully recognize individual tastes vary, and a skyline is a lot more than the # of 500 footers a city has. However, I don't buy the argument that Toronto is somehow catching up, or will foreseeably overtake, the Chicago skyline.



EDIT: If you're wondering, I did a count on Emporis and presently Chicago has 86 towers over 500 ft. Again, compare that to Toronto's 13 (or 14 for the CN Tower lovers) just to comprehend how large it is presently and the rate at which it's growing.
Very good point there, we should be happy with all the developments that we've got but it's a bit farfetched to compare with Chicago's massive and ever-expanding skyline.

But hey, both cities are going through major building booms and both will have transformed skylines in a few years. But let's just keep this thread about TO, comparing both cities will get us nowhere.
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Old November 13th, 2005, 06:12 PM   #203
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Nevertheless, Toronto is a such an amazing urban city to visit. I would recommend anyone to go and visit there.
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Old November 13th, 2005, 06:25 PM   #204
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Old November 14th, 2005, 02:07 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean
I believe this one was already approved by the city (?):

Hummingbird Tower
Daniel Libeskind
188.7 m / 619 ft.

So are they going to build that above the existing Hummingbird centre or does it get demolished or something?
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Old November 14th, 2005, 03:22 AM   #206
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^ beside it
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Old November 14th, 2005, 06:20 AM   #207
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"Since 1999 Chicago has added 15 500+ foot towers, with 4 more under construction.
Toronto has a TOTAL of 13 (14 if you want to include the CN Tower), with another 1 under construction."

Should move up the NA list in the next few years

Built / Construction

Metro New York 187 / 7
Chicago 86/ 4
Houston 29/0
Metro Dallas 21/0
Los Angeles 21/0
San Francisco 16/2
Boston 16/0
Metro Atlanta 13/1
Toronto 13/1
Seattle 11/1
Metro Miami 9/14
Philadelphia 9/1
Pittsburgh 9/0
Calgary 9/0


Las Vegas 3/5
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Old November 14th, 2005, 03:37 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck
Why is the gap increasing?
Well although a skyline is more than just the 500+ foot buildings, this stat is an excellent indicator:

Since 1999 Chicago has added 15 500+ foot towers, with 4 more under construction.
Toronto has a TOTAL of 13 (14 if you want to include the CN Tower), with another 1 under construction.

To put it in simplest terms:
Chicago has built more 500 foot towers in the past 6 years than Toronto has in total.
Chicago has more 500 foot towers under construction than Toronto.
Chicago will likely continue this trend.

Toronto has a great skyline, but we really shouldn't try and compare ourselves to one so far out of our league.
Be happy with what we've got, be happy with the ways it's getting better, but don't be foolish and deceptive and think we're catching up to the Chicago goliath.
It ain't happening.


Again, I fully recognize individual tastes vary, and a skyline is a lot more than the # of 500 footers a city has. However, I don't buy the argument that Toronto is somehow catching up, or will foreseeably overtake, the Chicago skyline.



EDIT: If you're wondering, I did a count on Emporis and presently Chicago has 86 towers over 500 ft. Again, compare that to Toronto's 13 (or 14 for the CN Tower lovers) just to comprehend how large it is presently and the rate at which it's growing.
i dont think anyone said Toronto will overtake it
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Old November 14th, 2005, 09:11 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep
i dont think anyone said Toronto will overtake it
Point?
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Old November 15th, 2005, 01:53 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck
Point?
You have a mouth and a half on you buddy, why don't you just sit back and relax. No one, indeed, mentioned that Toronto would overtake it, and clearly if there are others that believe Toronto's skyline will catch up (no one said overtake, get it right) than you're in the minority.

His point? Well clearly to correct you as you have been proudly jumping to correct others.

Can't wait to read your defensive rebuttal.
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Old November 15th, 2005, 04:28 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Domingo
You have a mouth and a half on you buddy, why don't you just sit back and relax. No one, indeed, mentioned that Toronto would overtake it, and clearly if there are others that believe Toronto's skyline will catch up (no one said overtake, get it right) than you're in the minority.

His point? Well clearly to correct you as you have been proudly jumping to correct others.

Can't wait to read your defensive rebuttal.
Oh the irony.
It's quite mouth-watering.
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Who cares about progressive... these people just want to get home to their 1/4 acre, 2 story, 3 car garage homes in 20 minutes instead of 25. - eomaha 01/15/02
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt, 1918.
"Scarborough does not look like East Berlin" - Daniel Libeskind 05/21/03
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Old November 15th, 2005, 05:25 AM   #212
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Oh why can't we friends? Oh why can't we be firends?...Anyone remeber that song?
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Old November 15th, 2005, 06:13 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valantino
"Since 1999 Chicago has added 15 500+ foot towers, with 4 more under construction.
Toronto has a TOTAL of 13 (14 if you want to include the CN Tower), with another 1 under construction."

Should move up the NA list in the next few years

Built / Construction

Metro New York 187 / 7
Chicago 86/ 4
Houston 29/0
Metro Dallas 21/0
Los Angeles 21/0
San Francisco 16/2
Boston 16/0
Metro Atlanta 13/1
Toronto 13/1
Seattle 11/1
Metro Miami 9/14
Philadelphia 9/1
Pittsburgh 9/0
Calgary 9/0


Las Vegas 3/5
I certainly hope so, as by my guess all of these should be under construction by the end of 2006: Trump, Ritz Carlton, Quantum (ok, maybe this one counts already seeing it's under excavation), and the Uptown.

Plus there's always the possibility of one or more of the following starting up within the next 12 months: MLSE Towers, one of the Bay-Adelaide's, Shangri-La, Four Seasons, Festival Tower, City Centre Tower.

Who knows if/when Sapphire will ever begin, and in the years ahead we can already look forward to (hopefully) 1 Bloor East, Signature, One City Hall Phase II, Parkside Village, and the few tall office proposals floating around.

And of course these are just the towers over 500 feet. A list of tall towers is nearly doubled when we look at those between 400 and 500 feet.

Regardless, setting our sights on a target like Boston seems do-able and a reasonable longer-range should be surpassing San Fran & LA.


And wow, look at Miami go! From 11th to 4th in just a couple of years.
I just noticed that the top three cities with the greatest number of 500 footers under construction (New York, Miami & Las Vegas) all have a CSI show featuring their town. Maybe if CTV starts CSI:Toronto some magical spillover effect will lead to further construction here.
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Who cares about progressive... these people just want to get home to their 1/4 acre, 2 story, 3 car garage homes in 20 minutes instead of 25. - eomaha 01/15/02
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt, 1918.
"Scarborough does not look like East Berlin" - Daniel Libeskind 05/21/03
www.urbantoronto.ca
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Old November 15th, 2005, 06:32 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck

Regardless, setting our sights on a target like Boston seems do-able and a reasonable longer-range should be surpassing San Fran & LA.

What are you saying? That Toronto's buildings are not at the level of Boston, LA and San Fran? I don't think either of those cities skylines can compare to Toronto's!
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Old November 15th, 2005, 06:34 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rise_against
What are you saying? That Toronto's buildings are not at the level of Boston, LA and San Fran? I don't think either of those cities skylines can compare to Toronto's!
Re-read the comment I was quoting, and my first 4 paragraphs.
My fifth paragraph directly ties in to those two.
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Who cares about progressive... these people just want to get home to their 1/4 acre, 2 story, 3 car garage homes in 20 minutes instead of 25. - eomaha 01/15/02
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt, 1918.
"Scarborough does not look like East Berlin" - Daniel Libeskind 05/21/03
www.urbantoronto.ca
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Old November 15th, 2005, 03:32 PM   #216
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The 500 foot threshold is a favourite of skyline buffs but it is an unreliable even useless quantifier of density and skyline impact.

You see, there are cities with a handful of 500 footers and then not much else. Toronto has a whack of buildings in the 400' - 500' range that... in my estimation... qualify as tall. Even those that are 389 feet 11 inches are tall.

But they don't count in this simplistic snapshot of height, do they? Time for the (made in Chicago) rules to change..........., the CN Tower belongs on any list (purists be damned) for its height and incredible stayin' power, dozens of very tall buildings deserve a nod, and we should go metric anyway...

Toronto will never catch Chicago overall (that's a very big city) but it's putting on a damn fine show, and the zillion photos posted demonstrate clearly why the bronze medal is not only deserved, but to be valued.

And anyway, Toronto has been the tallest city in the world for 30 years (it's impossible to make something that tall without guy wires disappear... ironic how excited certain forumers are about the "tweezers".

I vote to turn this thread back into a positive "booming" thread.

Assuming I can vote... where's the poll? Where's the poll?

Last edited by elliot; November 15th, 2005 at 03:39 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2005, 09:53 PM   #217
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Quote:
Maybe if CTV starts CSI:Toronto some magical spillover effect will lead to further construction here.
Strong possibility considering the CSI franchise is owned & produced (well CBS would only run the show if it had part ownership) by Toronto-based AllianceAtlantis (most likely because no American-based production company was interested - FOOLS)

Quote:
the CN Tower belongs on any list (purists be damned) for its height and incredible stayin' power, dozens of very tall buildings deserve a nod, and we should go metric anyway
Not the words of a true fan

(I wonder why S.com/ Emporis has never created a 500 foot list especially after Marshall "500 foot" Gerometta joined)

Unfortunately, The number of built 500 footers in Toronto remains unconfirmed - could be lower or even higher

Last edited by valantino; November 15th, 2005 at 10:02 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2005, 11:15 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by You are to blame
^ beside it
The land beside the Spagetti Factory?
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Old November 16th, 2005, 08:05 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elliot

I vote to turn this thread back into a positive "booming" thread.

Assuming I can vote... where's the poll? Where's the poll?
I agree. For those who want to continue with this Chicago Toronto thing, go nuts. Don't destroy this thread.
I even gave you guys a head start. Here you go:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=282314
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Old November 16th, 2005, 09:40 AM   #220
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Valantino there's a little known federal bylaw in the States that prohibits broadcast of any original dramas that are set outside of the continental U.S. (Hawaii successfully challenged the constitutionality of the law a number of times by bringing Jack Lord and Tom Selleck to the table.. Alaska's 15 minutes of fame exploited a bureaucratic achilles heel: production on that chilly show was allowed to proceed while the scripts were being assessed/analysed in Washington (apparently this is still in process).

I think the logic behind the bylaw is simple- murder, graphic autopsies and gambling contribute mightily to their urban mythologies and thus generate important tourism revenue. They aren't about to share that opportunity north of the border... not to mention the translation issues facing the viewing audience (comprendez-vous?). So as much as the CSI phenomenon contributes mightily to AA's (not aA) bottom line, I doubt they'll ever send a grisly postcard from Toronto... too bad... it would be approximately 1,000 times more impactful on tourism numbers than the insipid, illiterate "Toronto Unlimited" folly.

As for Marshall's 500 foot club, I'm suprised he's at Emporis given their stubby 12 storey "highrise" yard stick... or is it metre stick?

Oh... on topic... how about all those 'scrapers coming to the T-dot? Not bad for a small town.

Last edited by elliot; November 16th, 2005 at 09:48 AM.
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