daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: So??
Asphalt 92 80.70%
Concrete 22 19.30%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 10th, 2007, 10:58 PM   #181
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,688

Quote:
Originally Posted by radi6404 View Post
OFCOURSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It looks ******* ugly, it looks ulgier than extremly old Expressway sretches in Dupnica



This military runway stretch in dupnica which probably will be upgraded to the Struma motorwaqy looks better altough very old and with bad asphalt than the ******* ugly concrete Autobahn.
How dare you insult the Autobahn! To a German that's like insulting someone's mother! Watch your mouth, young man.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 11th, 2007, 08:34 AM   #182
TheCat
IsraCanadian :)
 
TheCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,358
Likes (Received): 6

Here is something very interesting I stumbled upon in Wikipedia, comparing the pavement of Ontario's 400-series highways and US Interstates, regarding asphalt vs. concrete. Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia:
Quote:
400 series freeways show many similar design aspects to the USA Interstate Highway system. One major difference between USA and Canadian highways are the pavement surfaces. While the USA defaults to using concrete as a wearing surface, Ontario defaults to asphalt as a wearing surface.

The majority of all 400 series highways are coated with asphalt pavement, though some sections are receiving concrete pavement, such as Highway 401 from Windsor to Tilbury. Exceptions among 400-series highways include Highways 406, 407 ETR and 427, which all have significant portions built in exposed concrete. All 400-series highway bridge decks are also covered with asphalt, with concrete only exposed around the expansion joints, unlike US Interstates where most bridge decks are exposed concrete with tining (grooves) to add traction in wet weather.

The reasoning behind Ontario's large use of asphalt is based on this explanation from Alfred Ho, at the Ontario MTO (Ministry of Transportation) website:

Asset durability has always been one of our prime concerns in management of bridges and other long term assets. For our Canadian harsh winters with ice and snow on our highway, we use de-icing salt, and a lot of it. Although it is good for the travelling motorists who can have a better grip for the road, it does terrible damage to the concrete components of our highways system; In particular bridges where the embedded reinforcing steel would corrode and rust. To protect the steel from the ingress of chloride ions from the salt solution, we placed a layer of rubberized asphalt waterproofing on all of our bridge decks. And to protect this waterproofing, 2 lifts of asphalt are placed on the bridges. We have good corrosion protection results over the years; and we have confirm the results with studies. Again thanks for you interest, and you are most welcomed to visit and use our highway system first hand. Alfred Ho Alfred Ho, P.Eng., MBA MTO Central Region

Conversely, Alfred's email can be argued from a recent e mail shown below from an Illinois Department of Transportation engineer who disputed the Canadian way of paving bridge decks:

Asphalt bridge surfaces observed in Ontario incorporate the philosophy of a wearing surface. The intention is to periodically replace this relatively inexpensive thickness of asphalt before deterioration to prevent exposure of the more cost-intensive concrete deck, superstructure, and substructure portions of the bridge to the damaging effects of the environment and vehicular traffic.

As logical as this philosophy may appear, a few drawbacks do exist.

1. Wearing surfaces can range between two and four inches in thickness, creating additional weight the structure is required to support. This in turn increases the overall design of a structure, translating into additional expense.

2. The wearing surface will be less durable than the concrete bridge deck, requiring more frequent repairs and maintenance. Routine schedules for replacement of the sacrificial layer require strict adherence as delays can invalidate decades of careful planning. Interruptions to free-flow traffic with more frequent work-zones also has a negative overall impact on level of service, translating into lost productivity time as the public are subjected to increased periods of congestion.

3. No guarantees are available even if maintenance schedules are followed with rigid discipline. IDOT is committed to ensuring the roads are clear and safe regardless of weather conditions, translating into a large quantity of salt use for ice prevention. This practice has a negative effect on the life-expectancy of the infrastructure as corrosion becomes more prevalent.

As shown above, Ontario MTO and Illinois DOT engineers have many factors to consider when it comes to pavement in dealing with snow, ice and salt in the very similar climates of Toronto and Chicago. This explanation can be proved first hand from any drive within the Greater Toronto Area or Chicago area. The majority of bridge decks and pavement in Toronto (Canada) are asphalt while in the Chicago (USA) area, most highways are continuous concrete highway/bridge deck or combo asphalt pavement/concrete bridge deck arrangement.
Original article located here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/400_series#Paving_Surface
__________________
Check out my driving videos on Youtube | Please visit the Highways & Autobahns forum
TheCat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #183
TooFar
moonage daydream
 
TooFar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Either here or there.
Posts: 610
Likes (Received): 377

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shukie View Post
I've never driven on concrete, but in these pictures it looks much more slippery than asphalt.
Certainly not. Some of the urban freeways in Montreal are being replaced with concrete. I can tell you I fell much safer driving on concrete in the middle of winter than I do on asphalt.

Before the concrete sets, shallow groves are cut into the surface of the concrete, this make it very adhesive, although the downside is it is also very noisy. Probably wears out your tires quicker as well.
__________________
Remember you are just an extra in everyone else's play.
TooFar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2007, 12:30 AM   #184
Nephasto
Enlightened user
 
Nephasto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Porto
Posts: 5,802
Likes (Received): 71

It does indeed wear tires quicker.
__________________
Long live rail freight!!
Nephasto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2007, 02:26 AM   #185
radi6404
Registered User
 
radi6404's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blagoevgrad/ Nürtingen
Posts: 3,054
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFar View Post
Certainly not. Some of the urban freeways in Montreal are being replaced with concrete. I can tell you I fell much safer driving on concrete in the middle of winter than I do on asphalt.

Before the concrete sets, shallow groves are cut into the surface of the concrete, this make it very adhesive, although the downside is it is also very noisy. Probably wears out your tires quicker as well.
It aktually is extremly noisy, I´ve driven on an Austrian concrete Autobahn and it was very noisy and rough, I tried to sleep but I couldn´t because it was too bumpy inside the car.
radi6404 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2007, 06:57 PM   #186
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,688

You're not supposed to sleep while driving.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2007, 07:13 PM   #187
Rail Claimore
Registered User
 
Rail Claimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,152
Likes (Received): 14

Concrete has advantages and disadvantages. It's safer in wet weather, and it lasts much longer than asphalt, but you have to be prepared to replace it when it goes bad. Worn out concrete roads are worse than worn-out asphalt roads. Rebuilding them takes longer as well, and that means 2-3 years of traffic jams just to rebuild one expressway... as is the current case with the Dan Ryan. But once it's complete, it'll be good for 60 years (the standard for new concrete construction techniques).

The gas mileage advantage is also true for passenger cars. Chicago has an abundance of concrete expressways AND arterials, and I've noticed I get about 10% more fuel efficiency driving here than I did in Alabama, where just about every road is asphalt.

That being said, I don't prefer one or the other. Asphalt can be really good if properly maintained. The state of Georgia does its job better than any other state DOT in that respect.
Rail Claimore no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2007, 10:34 PM   #188
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shukie View Post
I've never driven on concrete, but in these pictures it looks much more slippery than asphalt.
They rake grooves into the concrete while it's wet. When the grooves are perpendicular sound it usually makes a whistling sound during the tires which I love.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #189
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
They rake grooves into the concrete while it's wet. When the grooves are perpendicular sound it usually makes a whistling sound during the tires which I love.
You mean like in mult-istorey car parks? I hate that.
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 10:27 AM   #190
aussiescraperman
Registered User
 
aussiescraperman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne & Brisbane
Posts: 1,034
Likes (Received): 8

i like conrete roads so much better.

black asphalt roads look shite......and tacky. australia is like 90% black, 10% white/grey concrete.

well can u have differnt kinds of coulors for asphalt? uz maybe i have seen white asphalt, and it looks way better. i wish all our roads were like that.
__________________
i can only imagine
aussiescraperman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 04:38 PM   #191
Wallaroo
Registered User
 
Wallaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 126
Likes (Received): 1

Is asphalt always black when its new? I have seen many bright grey asphalt roads in Denmark, so maybe its possible to color it for better traffic safety?
Wallaroo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 04:55 PM   #192
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,571
Likes (Received): 19362

Asphalt can be layed in any possible color.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #193
goschio
proud Kuffar
 
goschio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ujerumani
Posts: 6,056
Likes (Received): 4248

Of course. The colour of the asphalt depends allot on the type of local materials. In northern Germany, for example, asphalt is generally brighter than in south Germany.
__________________
Isaiah 28:2
Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Matthew 7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
goschio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 05:18 PM   #194
luv2bebrown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Unknown
Posts: 1,882
Likes (Received): 109

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
You're not supposed to sleep while driving.
maybe in your country.
luv2bebrown no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2007, 11:35 PM   #195
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiescraperman View Post
i like concrete* roads so much better.

black asphalt roads look shite(please don't swear and it's shit)......and tacky. Australia is like 90% black, 10% white/grey concrete.

well can u you have differnt kinds of coulors for asphalt? uz [B]I thinkyou mean beacause[/B ]maybe I have seen white asphalt, and it looks way better. I wish all our roads were like that.
Learn english and please don't swear.

*That I understand I type fast and then it comes out wrong, but i don't say "uz"
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2007, 12:05 AM   #196
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

In the USA, they generally make new asphalt black. I guess it is done for increased road marking visibility. I personally like it more than gray asphalt.

Right now, the road between Pullman, WA and Moscow, ID (11 km) is being widened from 2X1 to 2x2, and soon they will put marking on it. I will try to snap a couple of pictures.
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #197
SilesianSkyscraper
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rybnik/Silesia
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 6

Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa in Upper Silesia Metropolitan Area:









SilesianSkyscraper no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2007, 12:56 PM   #198
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Crappy motorways/freeways/autobahns

This could be fun.


But no nationalism!



I'll start with a few historical images of "motorways" in East Germany from the Soviet era, but built already under Hitler (of course they were still crappy for some time after uniting with the West Germany).





Halls built on motorway!


Halls again.




After repaving one half.


All pictures taken here.

Last edited by Verso; October 20th, 2007 at 01:30 PM.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #199
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,571
Likes (Received): 19362



This was the state of the Polish A4 in 2002...
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2007, 01:23 PM   #200
RKC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 1,462
Likes (Received): 28

cool, keep 'em coming
RKC no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium