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View Poll Results: So??
Asphalt 92 80.70%
Concrete 22 19.30%
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Old May 19th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #81
ChrisZwolle
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Hmm that just looks like fake safety...
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Old May 19th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #82
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With space, they're apparently meant to be safer because they can absorb a large amount of force - you can just see that the cables are anchored into the concrete at the ends of each section.

Before these were installed, there was usually nothing (except for the odd light post, but a lot of freeways even in urban areas aren't lit) stopping a car from straying into the other side.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/marapr00/concrete.htm

From the US Federal Highway Administration website. A very detailed page about how concrete barriers work.

In Ontario, (my home jurisdiction), the highway department has been pretty feverishly replacing the old steel barrier (w-style) with new concrete tall wall barrier (which is a and thicker version of a jersey barrier). They always cite the improved safety of the concrete barriers in all of their press releases.

In this photo, the old w-style barrier has just been pulled out, to be replaced with permanent concrete:
http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-4...loor_South.jpg
It is now 'SOP' here in the USofA ('Standard Operating Procedure', for those not aware of that bit of USA vernacular) for energy-absorbing 'catchers' to be mounted on the 'facing' ends of steel 'W' guardrails. They look like flat targets, about the size of computer monitor screens, and are designed to 'catch' and hold on to errant cars while using various breakaways and so forth to safely bring them to a stop.

Mike
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Old May 19th, 2007, 08:13 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible View Post
With space, they're apparently meant to be safer because they can absorb a large amount of force - you can just see that the cables are anchored into the concrete at the ends of each section.

Before these were installed, there was usually nothing (except for the odd light post, but a lot of freeways even in urban areas aren't lit) stopping a car from straying into the other side.
The problem with those cable guidewires is that they are useless against trucks/lorries. They'll catch and hold cars, but not anything bigger.

They are much cheaper than concrete 'Jersey' barriers and steel guardrails, though.

Mike
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Old May 19th, 2007, 08:36 PM   #85
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Those cables are called here; motorcyclist decapitators.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
That lory on your video could easily break the steel rail and end up in the opposite lanes. With concrete barrier it is simply impossible even though the damage to the vehicle will be greater.

Here is what steel rail can do to a car:



Once in Bay Area I saw how a small lory hit the concrete divider. It didn't look good for the lory itself, but the driver was OK and what is the most important - the lory did not get to the other side.
How is it possible for such thing to happen? I mean, obviusly this is the issue of a badly installed barrier.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #87
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^ Are you sure it has nothing to do with Russia?
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Old May 19th, 2007, 09:00 PM   #88
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At first, I actually wrote that because it's Russia, the quality of the barriers is probably as crap as it can be but I didn't want to sound violent against Russia.(Didn't want an arguement about that Russian thing again)
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Old May 20th, 2007, 07:47 AM   #89
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You both are right - Russia sucks in road maintainance Russian drivers are also one of the worst in the world. Whenever I see pictures of Baltic countries, I always think that Russia would be just like that if it was more civilised. Unfortunately, it is not and never will be. I drove through Belarus and Ukraine, and I should say that they left much better impression on me than the country of my birth. That was a little offtopic.

Now let's get back to the concrete vs. steel. Russia or not, it would not have happened had they installed the concrete divider instead.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 12:08 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
You both are right - Russia sucks in road maintainance Russian drivers are also one of the worst in the world. Whenever I see pictures of Baltic countries, I always think that Russia would be just like that if it was more civilised. Unfortunately, it is not and never will be. I drove through Belarus and Ukraine, and I should say that they left much better impression on me than the country of my birth. That was a little offtopic.

Now let's get back to the concrete vs. steel. Russia or not, it would not have happened had they installed the concrete divider instead.
Yes, but this wouldn't have happened if the barrier had had a better quality also.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #91
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Concrete expressways vs. asphalt expressways

Quote:
Concrete roads have a large number of advantages over bituminious ones. These advantages include:

- Fuel Saving:Concrete roads are rigid pavements, which do not deflect under loaded trucks, unlike bitumen pavements. Hence load carriers require less energy when travelling on concrete roads (since no effort is expended in getting out of deflection 'ruts'). Trials carried out in the USA by the Federal Highway Administration and in India by the Central Road Research Institute, have shown that laden goods carriers consume 15-20% less fuel on concrete roads as compared to bituminious ones. Considering the fact that about 60% of our country's goods traffic moves by road, construction of a nation-wide network of concrete roads could thus save us hundreds of crores of rupees worth of foreign exchange now being spent on importing petroleum products.

- Long Maintenance-Free Life:Concrete roads have a life of 40 years or more, compared to 10 years for bituminious ones. In addition, concrete roads require almost no maintenance, whereas bituminious ones need frequent repairs due to damage by traffic, weather, etc.

- Gain in Traffic Speed:Concretising of existing roads in Mumbai, Nagpur, Calcutta and other cities has shown that this leads to significant gains in traffic speeds, making in turn for a notable reduction in congestion and jams on high traffic density roads. This increase in speed of vehicular movement , is due to the smooth concrete road surface which neither needs repairs, nor allows digging can be dug up for laying utilities (for which ducts provided in advance below the road surface). Increased traffic flow means saving of both time and fuel, as well as reduction of pollution caused by idling engines.

- Resistance to Weather, Oil Spils, etc.: Concrete roads are neither damaged by rain (being waterproof), nor softened and distorted by heat. They also do not lose their binder due to leakage of oil from vehicles. Hence they remain damagefree under most adverse conditions.

- Economy in use of materials:For the same traffic load conditions, concrete pavements are thinner than bituminious ones. Where the load bearing capacity of the soil is poor, a bituminious pavements may have to be made more than one-and-a-half times thicker than a concrete one. Concrete roads thus use less aggregates, which are in short supply or difficult to procure in many places.

- Enviormental Friendliness:Concrete roads score over bitumen ones, as far as enviornmental friendliness is concerned, in several ways. Firstly, production of concrete does not foul the atmosphere like the hot-mix bitumen-based plants (the latter have been banned from operating in some cities, due to their polluting nature). Secondly, concrete pavements can utilise fly ash, a polluting byproduct of thermal power plants. Addition of fly ash to concrete increases its density as well as its resistance to chemical attack. Finally, as already mentioned, faster movement of vehicles on concrete roads leads to lower pollution from vehicular emissions.

- Use of Indigenous Materials:Concrete roads use cement, which is manufactured from indegenously available materials like limestone, of which a plentiful supply is available. Bituminious roads need bitumen, which is obtained from imported crude oil (since Indian crude contains almost no bitumen). Besides which, availability of crude oil both in India and abroad is likely to reduce in the near future , thus jeopardising bitumen supplies required to repair existing bituminious roads.

Other Advantages:These include better reflectivity due to lighter colour(hence greater safety and lower lighting requirements), greater skid resistance and so on.

Concrete roads, however, have one disadvantage vis-a-vas bituminious ones, in that they are initially costlier to construct. However, with the price of bitumen going up steadily, and the use of fly ash (available free from power plants) in making concrete mixes for pavements now being accepted, the relative cost of these two types of pavements could become quite comparable.

When life-cycle costs are considered (as recomended by the BIS, for all competing technologies), concrete pavements with their long life and negligible maintenance, come out invariably superior to bituminious ones.

As regards the economic costs to the country, fuel saving and enviornmental friendliness make concrete roads a far superior choice over bituminous ones.
Makes a lot of sense. So why dont they build them anymore here in Europe?

How much faster is it to build a new expressway in concrete instead of asphalt?
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Old August 17th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #92
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Umm, in Indonesia most highway were built using concrete, and then layering it with asphalt for future development .
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Old August 17th, 2007, 05:08 PM   #93
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THis is the example of HIGHWAY in Indonesia which using asphalt



1



2



3



4



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Last edited by rilham2new; August 17th, 2007 at 05:17 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #94
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THis is the example Highway in Indonesia which using concrete (without asphalt layer )

1


2



3
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Old August 17th, 2007, 05:32 PM   #95
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90% of the Dutch motorways are constructed with PAC (Porous Asphalt Concrete).

In our densely populated country, noise pollution is considered as a problem. Concrete produces a lot of noise, while PAC absorbes it. There is even DLPAC = Double Layer Porous Asphalt Concrete.
Another advantage is that the drainage of rain is extremely well with PAC, driving in a thunderstorm is practically the same as driving on dry asphalt.This gives a huge advantage in traffic safety, especially on the very busy Dutch motorways.

However, PAC comes with a price; the constructing of it is 2,5 times more expensive as DAC (Dense Asphalt Concrete) and it requires a lot of maintenance. I guess you can easily pick the more prosperous country's by the type of pavement. A lot of countries can't afford PAC on their motorways, but some others don't see it as a priority.

Japan, the Netherlands and France uses it extensive.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 03:39 AM   #96
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Asphalt is better.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 04:02 AM   #97
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90%chinese expressway made by asphalt, it's more comfortable for driving, and can reduce sunshine reflection on the road.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 09:50 AM   #98
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PAC all the way...
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Old August 18th, 2007, 10:02 AM   #99
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I love straight up grooved concrete that whistles. I think it's the best road surface for any weather condition and that light whistling sound with clacking sounds every few hundred feet lets you know you're on a real highway.

Asphalt is just awful. It cracks all the time and feels super slick in the rain. Why not just use all concrete? It lasts for years and feels best on the tires.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 10:50 AM   #100
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Quote:
Asphalt is just awful. It cracks all the time
You wouldn't find any cracks if you just maintain your freeway. But if you don't care about noise pollution and traffic safety, and don't want to spend money on freeways, concrete is the option for you.
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