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Old May 21st, 2007, 11:38 AM   #61
cal_t
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Is VIVA run by a private company like Connex?
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_t View Post
Is VIVA run by a private company like Connex?
Press Release Extract :
Viva is the first public-private partnership of its kind in Canada for a major transportation infrastructure program. York Region partnered with York Consortium, an association of seven private sector firms that bring extensive international experience in transit design, architecture, construction and operations.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 02:53 AM   #63
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Quote:
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Is VIVA run by a private company like Connex?
None of the drivers work for York Region.

While the region owns the buses, controls the fares, a private firm is hired to supply bus drivers and maintain the buses.

VIVA is contracted to:
Veolia Transportation (formerly Connex).

YRT has three different contractors:
Laidlaw Transit (School Bus Company)
Tokmakjian (Can-ar Coach Bus Company)
Miller Transit (Construction/Paving/Waste Management Company).
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Old May 24th, 2007, 05:14 AM   #64
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VIVA is a great concept for suburban transit in the Toronto area. I just wish it wasn't limited to York Region, where it is only really used on Yonge St and Hwy 7 to a lesser extent. The green and orange lines have a handful of people on them in rush hours, and are empty the rest of the day.

It would be great to expand VIVA to other routes like Steeles (would service a heck of a lot more riders than out on Highway 7).

Otherwise a great system and amazing looking buses. For York Region, it put transit on the radar, but more VIVA routes on a better grid layout would make it even more attractive. I'd definitely like to see VIVA like service (with those same VanHool buses on Toronto streets).
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Old May 24th, 2007, 06:10 AM   #65
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Unfortunately, Steeles is part of Toronto and therefore YRT cannot run any routes along it. However, the TTC 'Rocket' routes are in a way a BRT service, though one that clearly lacks any effort.

One of the benefits of BRT over LRT is that it is much easier to install new routes with frequent service, and much faster too - ultimately leading to a much better experience for the rider. I think VIVA routes along Bayview and 16th to help ease the load with the current Yonge/7 corridors would be a great move, as well as offer much more convenient service to many more riders.

Also, I'm glad to see them working on the bridge between Richmond Hill Center and Langstaff station. Besides the fact that it will make connections to Toronto, Scarborough, York University, Markham, and Durham much more convenient, the business over there will see a MAJOR boost in sales. Also waiting for a transfer at the Timmies will be much nicer than waiting for it in the freezing cold winters.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 04:38 AM   #66
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People are always like TTC should get express bus service like VIVA.

While the TTC doesn't have the nice buses, ticket machines, people don't realize that the TTC already HAS limited stop VIVA-like express services.

To be honest, I think VIVA's success has largely been contributed to by its unique marketing. The TTC needs to start marketing itself as cool, and get people to like transit again.

Example

VIVA, the dating service. lmao

Compare that to this:
image hosted on flickr

I really don't know who these ads are appealing to. o_o
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Old May 25th, 2007, 11:23 AM   #67
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Usability is a much more practical improvement than a razzle and dazzle marketing campaign. If it can get people from A to B quickly and efficiently, then people will use it. Viva's express routes are an attractive draw, although it doesn't help a lot if it's stuck in traffic with all the other cars.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 03:54 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by York Transit View Post
People are always like TTC should get express bus service like VIVA.

While the TTC doesn't have the nice buses, ticket machines, people don't realize that the TTC already HAS limited stop VIVA-like express services.

To be honest, I think VIVA's success has largely been contributed to by its unique marketing. The TTC needs to start marketing itself as cool, and get people to like transit again.

Example

VIVA, the dating service. lmao

Compare that to this:
image hosted on flickr

I really don't know who these ads are appealing to. o_o
In the Toronto forum, I made a suggestion that the TTC change their logo like the YRT has, but with little fanfare. I know many really love it, but to me it just looks dated and ugly. I could even argue the strong use of the colour red, since there is something about that colour that doesn't really fit public transit. I find lighter and cooler colours work much better with public transit imo.

But yeah, the TTC should really promote its "Rocket-BRT" routes. Even if they can't afford modern rapid transit buses, they could easily highlight them and their stops on their maps and maybe even dress up the stops a little to signify that they are on a "rapid transit" line.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #69
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I think the TTC uses very nice vehicles these days. They purchased over 800 Orion VII busses to replace the old fishbowls. I would rather have these busses than the Viva ones, just because they both do the same job but the Orion is cheaper. After all, it's our tax dollars that's paying for em.
em.

And it is also very hard for the TTC to be like Viva because after all, the TTC is a government commission. When was the last time a government was chic. If that ad was for the TTC, you would have some middle aged housewive with nothing better to do lobbying the cityhall for using sexually suggestive topics to attract riders.

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Old May 27th, 2007, 01:39 PM   #70
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Im sure this was never intended...but when it comes to using sexually suggestive slogans to attract riders...it would be pretty tough to beat......................

ride the rocket


Cheers, m
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Old May 27th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #71
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Quote:
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I think the TTC uses very nice vehicles these days. They purchased over 800 Orion VII busses to replace the old fishbowls. I would rather have these busses than the Viva ones, just because they both do the same job but the Orion is cheaper. After all, it's our tax dollars that's paying for em.
em.

And it is also very hard for the TTC to be like Viva because after all, the TTC is a government commission. When was the last time a government was chic. If that ad was for the TTC, you would have some middle aged housewive with nothing better to do lobbying the cityhall for using sexually suggestive topics to attract riders.

I think the main problem with those buses is the lack of room available. Besides the fact that they are smaller than the GM buses, they've designed the seating so your knees are right up against the seat in front of you. We have similar buses in York Region, but they have much more leg room cause of the seating arrangements. I think the best looking buses the TTC ever had were the Nova ones. Not only did they have a sleek design and were large enough to handle larger passenger loads, but I liked how they used less red than the current Orion VII. Why they got rid of these babies I have no idea.

http://gtatransitsite.fotopic.net/p35286493.html (won't let me see the pic's source so I can post it here, unfortunately )

But the new buses are hybrids, so that helps make up for it
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Old May 28th, 2007, 09:03 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
II think the best looking buses the TTC ever had were the Nova ones. Not only did they have a sleek design and were large enough to handle larger passenger loads, but I liked how they used less red than the current Orion VII. Why they got rid of these babies I have no idea.
Ive heard that it was because of maintenance issues...TTC got the first of the NOVA LFS buses, and they had problems with them...the issues have since been ironed out but TTC moved on to buy from other companies...

would like to see if TTC moves back to Nova as the new buses are better than the older ones.

Cheers, m
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:43 AM   #73
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The LF nova busses were not that great in quality, not many cities are using them. Nova bus is also a division of Volvo, whoes busses are by it self more expensive than the Orion or Flyers. Not by that much, but it adds up when you're trying to replace all your old GM busses.

The issue with the high-floor Orion busses is not why the TTC stopped getting them, is why they got them in the first place. The TTC acquired these Novas in 1999, when they realized (after the quality issues that they've had with the articulated Orions and Flyer D4087-89s) that they were desperately in need of new busses. But because nobody had any room to build new busses for the TTC on such a short notice, Nova ended up selling them some busses that were originally built for New York.

The the Novas that you liked so much were never meant for Toronto, and the TTC never actually wantted to buy them. They have had no experience in using Nova and knowing how the TTC union is, I don't think their maintiance devision wants to learn them either.

But you're right, the New York Novas worked wonders in the TTC. Which is why the LF version was considred in the first place. But it really didn't work out too well.

I think to this date the best firm in North America in building LF busses is probabley New Flyer, by far the best quality and effeciency. The TTC acquired a modest number of them in around 2002 but then switched over to the Orions. Why that happened I'll never know, but from my experience the Orions are much more comfortable than the Flyers.

But yes, all LF buses are smaller than their high floor counter-part. Its the price you pay for easy access.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 10:53 PM   #74
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Heh the new Orion VII buses are okay I guess. I used to hate them because of the quite inconvenient raised compartment at the back, but I learned that many people are too lazy to go there, so now I often get a seat there, even if the bus is quite full :P

What makes them look better is mostly (in my opinion) the much more modern LCD display at the front. That display is so much better, especially in the evening and at night, and overall gives the buses a more modern look, which the previous buses lacked.

Another problem with a lot of Toronto buses (at least the older ones) is that a lot of them are extremely noisy. Sometimes they sound similar to a heavy truck. I think those new hybrids are quieter.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 05:15 AM   #75
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some of these busses are hybirds, but out of the 800 that were purchased, the vast majority are still diesel.

As for busses that sounds like trucks... will they all sound like trucks everywhere in the world. The only ones that doesn't sound like trucks are the LNG powered ones, those are quieter.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 07:16 AM   #76
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Modern diesel buses in Europe don't sound nearly as much like trucks as the ones in North America. In many counties, both the interior and exterior noise level limits would disqualify almost all North American made buses (only excluding a couple of new BRT models).

Case in point: In Calgary, the city did a noise level study of their bus fleet. Inside their 40 foot New Flyer LF Diesels, the noise levels ranged from 78dBA to 85dBA. The curbside noise level was found to be between 77 and 82dBA. In contrast, the maximum exterior noise permitted from a transit bus by the Danish Ministry of Transportation is 80dBA and the maximum interior noise permitted by HT, Copenhagen's former regional transit authority, is 72dBA in new buses and 75dBA in older ones. The only North American buses that would meet these requirements are specially made (and overpriced) BRT's and yet all common western European buses meet it including Van Hool, Mercedes, Volvo, Scania, Setra, Neoplan, Man, etc.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 04:22 AM   #77
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some of these busses are hybirds, but out of the 800 that were purchased, the vast majority are still diesel.
Yeah you're right, I think only those with the dome or whatever on the roof, specifically stating that the bus is a hybrid.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 10:12 AM   #78
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I love how the VIVA buses look and I love the logo as well. I have to take a ride on it the next time I go to Vaughan Mills.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 10:14 PM   #79
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I love how the VIVA buses look and I love the logo as well. I have to take a ride on it the next time I go to Vaughan Mills.
Viva doesn't goto Vaughan Mills, closest it goes is Yonge and 16th/Carville, from where you catch a transfer. You can also ride the Orange to VCC or York U and catch a bus there that goes to Vaughan Mills, but that bus redefines slow (terrible route planning and scheduling is responsible for its slow speeds).

EDIT: Going to be going my York U later this week, I'll try and post some pics of the bridge construction at Richmond Hill Center.
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Last edited by Electrify; June 2nd, 2007 at 10:29 PM.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 10:22 PM   #80
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To be honest, I think VIVA's success has largely been contributed to by its unique marketing. The TTC needs to start marketing itself as cool, and get people to like transit again.
The problem with this statement is that VIVA is not much of a success at all. The ridership growth for York Region Transit was actually faster before the introduction of VIVA. Brampton Transit is growing almost as fast, despite the lack of advertising, premium buses and express service.
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