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Old July 8th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #1641
highway35
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I'm optimistic that the air traffic in Beijing (and China too) will still grow rapidly in the next decade, and even beyond, considering Chinese air travel volume is about one third of the US now.

But I do have a problem with building such humongous airport. I think it's far better to build several medium-sized airports in different areas of Beijing than to concentrating the traffic into one or two gigantic airports. Beijing is huge and commute is a challenge from to part of the city to another. Beijing can build another 3-4 smaller airports spread out in different areas of the city . The Chinese has still not realized the benefit of easy-to-access airports, and are obsessed with these kind of monumental projects.

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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
There have been comments in the media that the new airport will be a hub for SkyTeam while the existing one will be for Air China and Star Alliance. In this case the airports will be both major hubs.

Unfortunately there is a bad habit in China to make super-wild projections which are never close to ever being achieved. Personally I think only the first phase (four runways, 40 million passenger capacity, one terminal built) will ever be built, since further expansion will either be unnecessary due to the high speed rail expansion or very politically difficult as the society continues to open up.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 02:14 AM   #1642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highway35 View Post
I'm optimistic that the air traffic in Beijing (and China too) will still grow rapidly in the next decade, and even beyond, considering Chinese air travel volume is about one third of the US now.

But I do have a problem with building such humongous airport. I think it's far better to build several medium-sized airports in different areas of Beijing than to concentrating the traffic into one or two gigantic airports. Beijing is huge and commute is a challenge from to part of the city to another. Beijing can build another 3-4 smaller airports spread out in different areas of the city . The Chinese has still not realized the benefit of easy-to-access airports, and are obsessed with these kind of monumental projects.
In the next decade China will have built a massive high speed rail system before it has become wealthy, which will greatly depress domestic aviation demand (and maybe even into North/South Korea if the Glorious Leader goes). Second, interior cities such as Chengdu, Kunming, and Wuhan are building massive new airports and China will resemble the US in having multiple airline hubs scattered across the country which can alleviate congestion at coastal hubs. Thirdly by the time the first phase is complete in 2017/18 there will most likely be a stronger civic society which will (in whatever way) fiercely oppose further expansion and can no longer be ignored. Finally the airports at Tianjin, Tangshan and Shijiazhuang can all serve the entire northern Hebei region. And who knows, most likely by then China will be well served by Ryanair-style budget airlines eager to use cheaper and remote airports. So I think the second Beijing airport need not be so large after all.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 09:32 AM   #1643
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Agreed. It'll be interesting to see what kind of transportation infrastructure will eventually take shape in China.

Compared with the US, I think it's favorable for China to develop a national high-speed rail network while it doesn't make much sense to build such a national HSR network in the US. But the US is more suitable to have a hub-and-spoke air transport system than China.

The US population is more spread out, with large population in both coasts. In addition, you have many small and medium cities across the country. It's much more costly to serve the population with a national HSR network. A hub-and-spoke air transport system is much more cost effective.

Chinese population are mostly concentrated in the Eastern half of the country, with much higher population density. Therefore China can afford a national HSR network. I believe eventually the Chinese air transport system is more geared toward to that of a point-to-point system, serving the several dozens of cities with large population (probably up to 50% of the population). There will be regional airports to serve remote small to medium cities, e.g. in the western and northeastern part of the country (probably less than 10% of the population). The majority of the rest of the population can be served with a combination of airports and HSR network. There will be some small hub-and-spoke systems, but they will not be the dominant form of the air transport system in China.




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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
In the next decade China will have built a massive high speed rail system before it has become wealthy, which will greatly depress domestic aviation demand (and maybe even into North/South Korea if the Glorious Leader goes). Second, interior cities such as Chengdu, Kunming, and Wuhan are building massive new airports and China will resemble the US in having multiple airline hubs scattered across the country which can alleviate congestion at coastal hubs. Thirdly by the time the first phase is complete in 2017/18 there will most likely be a stronger civic society which will (in whatever way) fiercely oppose further expansion and can no longer be ignored. Finally the airports at Tianjin, Tangshan and Shijiazhuang can all serve the entire northern Hebei region. And who knows, most likely by then China will be well served by Ryanair-style budget airlines eager to use cheaper and remote airports. So I think the second Beijing airport need not be so large after all.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 09:28 PM   #1644
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Really that necessary? :S *puzzled*
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Old July 11th, 2011, 06:36 AM   #1645
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Misnomer Title for Beijing-Daxing

The Chinese capital's second major airport, Beijing-Daxing International Airport won't actually be the world's largest airport as NACO claims it would be.

If we include the entire Dubai World Central (aerotropolis) in gauging Al-Maktoum International Airport's size, it will still be bigger in terms of total surface area than this facility.

In addition, Denver International Airport is going to have 12 runways when it is all built-out. This would mean that it will eventually have a higher ultimate capacity for aircraft movements than this monster.

Perhaps this might be the world's largest in terms of total number of aircraft stands.

Of course, there are several other airports that have bigger total surface areas than all of these three but none exhibit the massive infrastructure that are planned for the airports above.

There is the Montreal-Mirabel International Airport which had a large forested area, as reserved land (which made it the second largest airport ever), to act as a noise buffer. Unfortunately, this airport was a huge utter failure. It ended-up selling these forested parcels of land to farmers. Currently, it occupies a far smaller area than it was once projected to. It is now mainly used by cargo and chartered flights.

And who can forget King Fahd International Airport (of Damman, Saudi Arabia), which is the largest motherf***er of them all. It has enough land to house Beijing-Daxing, Dubai World Central, and Denver combined! It occupies 780 square kilometers of the Arabian desert.

Another Saudi Arabian airport, King Khalid International Airport (in Riyadh), occupies a much smaller yet still very expansive 225 square kilometers of desert land.

Heck, I've even read an article stating that the Iranian capital's main airport, Tehran-Imam Khomeini happens to have reserved land that, when added with the current airport land, would add-up to 150 square kilometers. But this statistic is unconfirmed by other sources.
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Old July 11th, 2011, 03:32 PM   #1646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cebuano Exultor View Post
The Chinese capital's second major airport, Beijing-Daxing International Airport won't actually be the world's largest airport as NACO claims it would be.
Size can be measured in many ways, normaly an airport is measured by the number of passengers it handle. Considering Bejing is the capital of the worlds most populous country, it could very well end up the largest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cebuano Exultor View Post
In addition, Denver International Airport is going to have 12 runways when it is all built-out. This would mean that it will actually have a higher ultimate capacity for aircraft movements than this monster.
Dallas/Fort Worth was also supposed to have 125 runways and 3000 terminals before they realized it would never ever be needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cebuano Exultor View Post
If we include the entire Dubai World Central (aerotropolis) in gauging Al-Maktoum International Airport's size, it will still be bigger in terms of total surface area than this facility.
There is not a snowball's chance in hell that the new Dubai airport will ever have a need for even 4 runways, probably not even 2. They already have one huge airport and a second one under construction in Abu Dhabi.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #1647
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@ gincan

Quote:
Dallas/Fort Worth was also supposed to have 125 runways and 3000 terminals before they realized it would never ever be needed.
Foh reals! Or, are you being sarcastic?

[Sarcasm On]
If that were true, I want what they were smoking when they came-up with that genius idea!
[Sarcasm Off]

Heck, that would have been probably as vast as the Nevada Test and Training Range (the largest overland military installation in the world)!
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Old July 14th, 2011, 05:26 AM   #1648
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I think China REALLY doesn't like the idea of having many smaller "easy-access" airports.

Cities don't have enough land nor airspace to accommodate "easy access" smaller airports and if they did build these, it'd probably be pretty far from the city anyways. Because of this, they've to think big and plan for the future although unlike many airport masterplans in the West, the plan will be realized very soon. Quite frankly, if they don't plan REALLY BIG for Beijing Daxing, that means land zoned for other things - opportunity wasted. When Beijing Daxing is overwhelmed, the 3rd Beijing airport will either be in Shijiazhuang, Tianjin or in another province altogether simply because there's NO SPACE.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:25 AM   #1649
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Beijing Capital Airport is gaining 7-10 million passenger a year. By 2017 it will handle more than 100 million passenger by demand (in case it actually manages to do so), therefore I think they should attempt to open Daxing asap.

Check this forecast:
http://lux.hexun.com/2011-05-31/130131375.html
93 million by 2012.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #1650
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It is simple math really. If nothing major occurs that will affect Chinese growth negatively, this airport is required and not overkill at all.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #1651
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londons 4 airports pull 130 million passengers, and beijing is 40-80% larger depending on how you count it..
it is also the capital of 1.4bn ppl who are 75% poorer
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Old July 15th, 2011, 02:44 AM   #1652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariol View Post
Impressive project.

By the way, ATL is still the busiest airport in the world, even if PEK is growing very fast.
It looks like the crossover will happen later this year...
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Old July 15th, 2011, 04:59 AM   #1653
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huge
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Old July 16th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #1654
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Old July 20th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #1655
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Anyone here who is familiar with PEK. Is there a viewing deck like the one in HKG???
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Old July 21st, 2011, 04:47 AM   #1656
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Quote:
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Anyone here who is familiar with PEK. Is there a viewing deck like the one in HKG???
Haven't seen one although the terminals are designed such that it's possible to get up to the edge of the glass to take photos of airplanes.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 05:31 AM   #1657
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Quote:
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Haven't seen one although the terminals are designed such that it's possible to get up to the edge of the glass to take photos of airplanes.
Too bad. I wish PEK could have a viewing deck! I can use my free time watching/taking picture/recording take-offs and landings.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 06:59 AM   #1658
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Old July 21st, 2011, 03:29 PM   #1659
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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #1660
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