daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 4th, 2009, 12:32 AM   #301
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

its also worth mentioning that 17 % of the ceneri is done too :o
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 4th, 2009, 01:02 AM   #302
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

The boring of the main tubes of the Ceneri Base Tunnel will start in spring 2010. Now they are still building some service caverns. 8 km by drill&blast to the north, 2 km drill&blast to the south, then 4 km either by drill&blast or TBM (it is still not decided).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 09:16 AM   #303
Alexriga
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,089
Likes (Received): 183

I hope it opens faster than in 2017.
Alexriga no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #304
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

me 2, otherwise ill have to eat my hat IF the messina bridge is on time :o
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2009, 03:30 AM   #305
antovador
space wanderer
 
antovador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Trantor
Posts: 1,075
Likes (Received): 240

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Probably. About 3,5 km left in the eastern tube: http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=118&L=1
3.5 km to the Sedrun/Faido limit
__________________
Los dinosaurios no vieron venir aquel asteroide. ¿Cúal es nuestra excusa? Neil de Grasse Tyson

Highcliff liked this post
antovador no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #306
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Yes. From Sedrun to the limit there are maybe 700 m left.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2009, 06:10 PM   #307
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

A possible timetable for 2020.

dep = departure
arr = arrival
IC = InterCity = fast train (maybe EC EuroCity for trains to Milano)
IC = InterRegio = semi-fast local train

Code:
		IC		IR
		arr	dep	arr	dep
Basel		-	-	-	6.05
Olten		-	-	6.27	6.32
Luzern		-	-	7.05	7.18
Zürich		-	7.08	-	-
Zug		7.30	7.32	-	-
Arth Goldau	7.46	7.50	7.44	7.53

8 stops on the old line for the IR
no-stop throught the base tunnel for the IC

Bellinzona	8.39	8.41	9.56	9.58
Locarno		-	-	10.16	-
Lugano		8.53	8.55	-	-
Chiasso		?	?	-	-
Como		?	?	-	-
Milano Centrale	9.50	-	-	-
Trains are alternated: first hour IR Basel-Locarno and IC Zürich-Milano, second hour IC Basel-Milano and IR Zürich-Locarno, and so on.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2009, 12:02 PM   #308
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Trains are alternated: first hour IR Basel-Locarno and IC Zürich-Milano, second hour IC Basel-Milano and IR Zürich-Locarno, and so on.
Cocco, you're IRs effectively waste 20 minutes in the stations of Luzern and Arth-Goldau. Why? Are these terminus stations where the trains have to change direction?
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2009, 01:56 PM   #309
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Luzern is a terminus station, but there until 2008 IR trains changed loco and restarted in 7 minutes. The problem is mainly that there are 5 lines converging in Luzern that share 3 km of double track with flat junctions (as example a train leaving Luzern for Zürich cross the Basel-Luzern track delaying a train on this line), and this makes difficult or impossible a reduction of the waiting time in Luzern.

In Arth Goldau slow trains wait up to 9 minutes, but fast trains wait only up to 6 minutes. This allows good connection, ie from a Basel-Locarno local to a Zürich-Milano fast train, or viceversa, but also to/from St Gallen. IC trains leave Arth Goldau before IR trains, this avoids conflicts (because the fast train is ahead the slow one). And as IR trains are used mainly for local traffic, it isn't a problem if they are a little bit slower.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2009, 03:24 AM   #310
alphorn2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
A possible timetable for 2020.
No need to guess, I have a copy of the actual timetable (with the note "to be adjusted for real journey times through tunnel"). Your version is almost entirely correct, off by one minute or less. No stop in Chiasso, Stop in Como at unknown time, arrival in Milano is 9:49. The journey time from Zurich to Milano is therefore cut from 3:41 to 2:41. That's not hugely impressive compared to some high speed lines, but the project's main purpose is increasing freight capacity so no high speed lines are being built to and from the tunnel.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
alphorn2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2009, 10:29 AM   #311
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Where do you have found your timetable?

The target is to arrive in Zürich and Milano just before minutes 00 or 30. That is, allow the greatest number of connections, not the shortest journey time.

I don't think this timetable is realistic, anyway. Between Milano and Lugano there will not be a new line by 2020, and as today with 1h of scheduled travel time most trains arrive some minutes late, I don't think it is possible to do this trip in 55 minutes instead of 60. Just look at train CIS 12: it is nearly always 5 to 10 minutes late (total travel time between 1h05 and 1h10).

Code:
		IC		IR
		arr	dep	arr	dep
Milano Centrale	-	7.10	-	-
Como		?	?	-	-
Chiasso		?	?	-	-
Lugano		8.05	8.08	-	-
Locarno		-	-	-	6.44
Bellinzona	8.19	8.21	7.02	7.04
...
Arth Goldau	9.09	9.13	9.07	9.16
Zug		9.28	9.30	-	-
Zürich		9.52	-	-	-
Luzern		-	-	9.42	9.54
Olten		-	-	10.27	10.32
Basel		-	-	10.55	-
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2009, 05:30 PM   #312
Luganese1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 301
Likes (Received): 72

__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Luganese1980 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2009, 01:49 PM   #313
sebametro
Registered User
 
sebametro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,733
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luganese1980 View Post
does anyone have a clear picture of the Bodio south portal as i can precisely locate it on google earth
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
sebametro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #314
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Google Maps is not up-to-date, anyway:
- Northern portal
- Southern portal
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2009, 12:48 AM   #315
Luganese1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 301
Likes (Received): 72

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebametro View Post
does anyone have a clear picture of the Bodio south portal as i can precisely locate it on google earth


Alptransit.ch
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Luganese1980 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM   #316
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

Will the capacity south of Chiasso be enough?

http://videoportal.sf.tv/video?id=a5...3-caa00609cddc
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2009, 10:49 PM   #317
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Will the capacity south of Chiasso be enough?
No
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2009, 11:07 AM   #318
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 173

That's always the problem, isn't it? A massive increase in the capacity in one place almost always (except when the increase is designed to overcome an existing bottleneck...) creates capacity problems further down the line.

Similarly north of the portal. If you ask me, someone in Switzerland are going to bitterly regret not having started on a new base tunnel through the Jura much earlier. (Thank you, Herr Blocher!) Once Gotthard is open there's going to be so much traffic coming through that creaky old railway between Liestal and Egerkingen.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2009, 12:58 PM   #319
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Exactly.

Anyway the capacity with the two base tunnels will be higher that today and passengers trains will gain one hour.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Highcliff liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2009, 08:17 PM   #320
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 173

I don't deny that. But the traffic planners need to be nimble to avoid bottlenecks where two lines (i.e. the old Gotthard route and the new) merge back into one. I guess immediately north of Gotthard the remaining capacity constraint can be resolved through the construction of Zimmerberg 2? At that point the traffic can, I think, be conducted at a steady pace even at peak hours between Zurich and Ticino. My point was that the trains will not be able to continue apace further north on the line Zurich-Olten-Basle. There, the Jura mountains will remain a considerable bottleneck.

I found a presentation where an ingeneering professor gives his assessment of where the future bottlenecks will be. Sorry for not cut-and-pasting the relevant exhibit (I had a technical problem), it is on page 30:
http://litep.epfl.ch/webdav/site/lit...U_Weidmann.pdf
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
alps

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium