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Old April 5th, 2013, 02:23 AM   #721
StuZealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The Ceneri base tunnel is being excavated from a middle access tunnel. Progression south from there is good, but north of this access is one year late. Unfortunately, the tunnel cannot be bored from the north because of nimbysm and tracks cannot be easily laid in the already bored and lined tunnel because they have to be laid preferably from the north, as in the middle and southern work sites there is not much space.
Yes, that is quite apparent from AlpTransit's monthly progress graphic. Northbound remaining to be excavated is about twice of Southbound; even though they can blast 24/7 to the North. I wonder if the planned 2019 opening date will prove too optimistic?
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Old April 5th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The problem with the lack of flyovers in Switzerland is that it constrains for decades the maximum speed and the operating patterns of trains.

Ideally, important rail junctions should be always grade-separated. That way, if protocols of ECTS are vastly improving and new braking technologies deployed, you can speed up trains without having to invest billions of CHF because some bureaucrat at FSS decided station x can only be served by trains every 30 minutes such that another path is not crossed by an incoming train.

You should always overbuild infrastructure to allow for future changes by having it at overcapacity.
Even if all these junctions were grade-separated. it wouldn't solve the issue of two (for example) North bound tracks merging into one track. One (slower) train would potentially still have to wait for another (faster) train to get onto the single line ahead of it.

As I see it, the main advantage of grade-separation would be to prevent a North bound train from having to cross thru a South bound line (or vice versa) to merge with the other North bound track.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #723
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Some pictures from http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/18193184











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Old April 6th, 2013, 09:38 AM   #724
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Quote:
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The problem with the lack of flyovers in Switzerland is that it constrains for decades the maximum speed and the operating patterns of trains.
The problem with you is that you make up facts. Like a supposed lack of fly overs. Have you every taken a train in Switzerland?

Quote:
Ideally, important rail junctions should be always grade-separated. That way, if protocols of ECTS are vastly improving and new braking technologies deployed, you can speed up trains without having to invest billions of CHF because some bureaucrat at FSS decided station x can only be served by trains every 30 minutes such that another path is not crossed by an incoming train.
Actually new protocols allow you to operate the same number of trains, or even more trains, with less infrastructure...
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You should always overbuild infrastructure to allow for future changes by having it at overcapacity.
No you shouldn't. Infrastructure is very expensive. Overbuilding it will bankrupt a country. And Switzerland can't ask the Germans to bail them out like the Italians apparently expect.
It remains strange that you are against making efficient investments when it's tax payer's money that is involved.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
Yes, that is quite apparent from AlpTransit's monthly progress graphic. Northbound remaining to be excavated is about twice of Southbound; even though they can blast 24/7 to the North. I wonder if the planned 2019 opening date will prove too optimistic?
According to an official report I could briefly see but not photocopy, the breakthrough between the northern and central headings of the CBT will be between January 2015 and September 2016, for the central-southern section between May 2015 and September 2016. Opening of the tunnel should be between December 2019 and August 2021 according to the breakthrough date (and to other unexpected problems, if they arise).
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Old April 8th, 2013, 01:41 AM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
According to an official report I could briefly see but not photocopy, the breakthrough between the northern and central headings of the CBT will be between January 2015 and September 2016, for the central-southern section between May 2015 and September 2016. Opening of the tunnel should be between December 2019 and August 2021 according to the breakthrough date (and to other unexpected problems, if they arise).
That's a lot of variability for the breakthrough date considering that more than 50% of the tunnel has been dug already...
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Old April 13th, 2013, 03:46 AM   #727
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as the tunnel already concreted?
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Old April 13th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #728
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That's a lot of variability for the breakthrough date considering that more than 50% of the tunnel has been dug already...
Well, there's a lot of uncertainty regarding the stuff they'll tunnelling through. And in the southern section as they progress they get closer to the surface and may, or may not, have to slow down.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 10:16 AM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustão d2 View Post
as the tunnel already concreted?
Do you mean lined?

If so, it's yes for the GBT, no for the CBT (except a few metres).

See here: http://www.alptransit.ch/en/status-o...struction.html
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Old April 13th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #730
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Old April 13th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #731
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By the way, judging by their own progress reports at alptransit.ch, the basi construction work is very close to being finished with only Faido emergency station and one tube of the southern Faido-Bodio segment. Couple more months perhaps? Anyone remembers when the first in tunnel train testing is supposed to start? Was it next spring?
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Old April 13th, 2013, 10:32 PM   #732
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On the first 14 km from the south of the western bore tests with electric trains will start before the end of the year, at up to 230 km/h. The other bore here is without track.

On this track and on the 20 km of the two tubes from the north standard gauge trains have been running for some time, to build the tracks themselves but also to supply material to other points of the tunnel (for example, there is a RoLa/ro-ro train service transporting trucks from the southern base to Faido underground complex).
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Old April 29th, 2013, 03:09 AM   #733
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Did anyone attend the latest open day on the 27th?
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Old April 29th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #734
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I went, as at any open day held in the last years.

First, the southern portal area. The thick blue line is a road tunnel, drawn on its side there is its safety tunnel and more to the right an utility tunnel (cables for electricity, etc). The green lines are variants for the planned extension (unlikely before 2050).

[IMG]http://i42.************/2hg4twn.jpg[/IMG]

The northern portal, with the main line going straight into Sementina tunnel (not before 2040), and with the many chords linking the lines.

Note that the old bridge above the A2 has been replaced by a new 4-tracks bridge, stupidly with only two lanes+shoulders per direction. This is doubly stupid as the southbound carriageway of the motorway has already 3 lanes on both sides of the bridge, so there always be a short section with only 2 lanes. In the opposite direction south of the bridge there are already two lanes, so it will not be the only bottleneck. Maybe a 3+2 layout without shoulders under the bridge will be possible, in future.

[IMG]http://i42.************/1xyrr9.jpg[/IMG]

Five lines converge here. In black there are the existing lines (including the one to Lugano), in red what is under construction, in green what is for the far future. As a temporary solution waiting for the green line, a third track will be built between Giubiasco (shown in the plan below) and Bellinzona, including a short but difficult 300 m tunnel (it will be shallow and has to be built in a city and under a castle).

[IMG]http://i41.************/4rfc5i.jpg[/IMG]
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Old April 29th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #735
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The 500 m southbound bridge in the foreground and the 1000 m northbound bridge in the background.

[IMG]http://i44.************/35b5abo.jpg[/IMG]

Three tracks will enter the mountain here, two in the tube on the left and one on the right. The right tube is higher, because it is directly linked to the 1000 m bridge of the photo above.

[IMG]http://i41.************/mhgia9.jpg[/IMG]

The two tracks will be separated by a wall and will diverge inside the tunnel. The three tracks will be, from left to right: Bellinzona-Lugano, Lugano-Locarno and Lugano-Bellinzona. Locarno-Lugano track will join the Bellinzona-Lugano track outside the tunnel (actually the switch will be partially inside the tunnel). There is only one track to Locarno, see the drawing above.

[IMG]http://i43.************/vibdx.jpg[/IMG]

I will continue posting pictures this evening.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #736
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Southbound (eastern) tunnel on the left, link tunnel with the northbound tube on the right. There will be no switches inside this cavern, as a wall will be built splitting the cavern in two.

[IMG]http://i40.************/2m0hp2.jpg[/IMG]

The two centre tracks (to/from Locarno) merge into one on the left, that then joins the double track line.

[IMG]http://i39.************/96hz7m.jpg[/IMG]

A section waiting to be lined.

[IMG]http://i42.************/5u0h9c.jpg[/IMG]
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Old April 29th, 2013, 08:36 PM   #737
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The structure used to build the definitive lining. In this particular point the tunnel is already lined, the structure has been put here just to show it.

[IMG]http://i42.************/la6hc.jpg[/IMG]

In this photos, all layers can bee seen. On the right the sprayed concrete, just over the rock. Then the black sheet of syntethic material to isolate the tunnel from water. Then the metal bars before being sunk into concrete, as can be seen below the bars.

[IMG]http://i43.************/1tu3v5.jpg[/IMG]

This cavern is at the other end of the link tunnel of the first photo of previous post. On the left the Bellinzona-bound track, climbing a few meters because it has then to pass on the 1000 m viaduct over the Locarno track, which is on the right in this photo.

[IMG]http://i40.************/5jwtpx.jpg[/IMG]

(bigger version: http://i44.************/332t4bb.jpg)
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Old April 29th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #738
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The N13 underpass, around 400 m long of which 80 covered. It will open this June.

The first photo in post #727 shows the bridges in the same point.

[IMG]http://i40.************/35l5f0n.jpg[/IMG]

(bigger version: http://i41.************/i3axx4.jpg)

The Bellinzona-Locarno track pass the road with the 500 m bridge which will be completed after the opening of the underpass (because it lies at he same level as the N13 diversion road).

[IMG]http://i39.************/ng8qwg.jpg[/IMG]

Finally the Bellinzona side of the two bridges.

[IMG]http://i39.************/35bh5wy.jpg[/IMG]

That's all for now!

********************************

As a bonus, two photos of the track works on the open south of the GBT: http://www.bahnforum.ch/index.php?pa...=1910&pageNo=2
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Old April 29th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #739
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Nice improvement from last year, thanks for the details of the lining.
(Is this the place we met at, right?).
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Old April 30th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #740
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Excellent photos as always, thank you cocco. I find your pics to be often a lot more informative than some of the ones on AlpTransit's site.

Couple of questions for you:
* Was there any talk about the progress of excavation at Sigirino? A few weeks ago you said that it was estimated to be about a year behind schedule in the drive to the north.

* How far into the tunnel were you allowed to walk?
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