daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 17th, 2014, 12:53 AM   #881
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Thanks for a detailed answer. I've taken that route just 3-4 times and was not aware of all those closed/rarely used stations.

Actually there are a lot of closed stations all over Switzerland. A train travel must have been very different few decades ago.

By the way do you know whether Basel-Milan service will also use Gotthard route or continue on the current Simplon alignment?
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 17th, 2014, 02:04 AM   #882
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

The Simplon route will still be faster
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2014, 10:05 AM   #883
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

The Gotthard Base Tunnel: successful test runs

Within 78 days are successfully carried out more than 650 races: this is the positive balance of the test runs at the Gotthard Base Tunnel that have taken place since the beginning of December 2013 until mid-June 2014 in the west tunnel between the south portal in Bodio and Faido multifunction station. Along the 13-km tested, the trains have reached 220 km / h. The test runs have provided important information in preparation of the test through the entire gallery and regular commissioning of the Gotthard Base Tunnel in 2016.

"We are very pleased with the progress and results of the various measurements obtained. We had the first confirmation: the whole system of tunnel meets the requirements. There was no divergence anomalies or particularly relevant, "summarizes Bratschi Oliver, Director of Commissioning Alp Transit Gotthard AG, about 6 months of trial runs. The complex interactions of the different processes, systems and facilities such as tracks, catenary, power supply, security systems, driving technique in the gallery, as well as security and internal communication have proven operated.
Test the entire gallery from autumn 2015

The test runs were conducted under the direction of Alp Transit Gotthard AG. The staff of locomotive and rolling stock have been leased to Alp Transit Gotthard AG by SBB. In the coming months, along with ATG will evaluate the results of the FFS test runs. The information gathered will feed in the exercise test will start in autumn 2015. On this occasion both barrels of the 57 km Gotthard Base Tunnel will be completely crossed. Alp Transit Gotthard AG will deliver the longest tunnel in the world at SBB during the official opening of the Gotthard Base Tunnel June 2, 2016. Regular commissioning is expected in December 2016.
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #884
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
By the way do you know whether Basel-Milan service will also use Gotthard route or continue on the current Simplon alignment?
Both. There might even be three different routes for Basel-Milan.

These should be:
Basel-Bern-Simplon-Milan
Basel-Lucerne-Gotthard-Milan (like until 2010 or so)
Basel-Zürich-Gotthard-Milan (AFAIK a route never used regularly before, as some Zürich-Milano trains in the past came from/continued to Schaffhausen or Stuttgart, but never from Basel)

Today Basel-Milano trains all run via the Simplon (there is also a single Lucerne-Gotthard-Milan train, but it is not from Basel unlike in the past).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Last edited by Coccodrillo; June 19th, 2014 at 09:40 AM.
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 03:31 AM   #885
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

SWITZERLAND | Gotthard Base Tunnel

Really? That's quite surprising to me, so with the new faster line the trains will make more stops than the current ICN, or am I missing something?
I thought the old line will continue to be used where IR trains will serve minor stations between Arth-Goldau and Bellinzona


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Last edited by Samply; June 19th, 2014 at 03:39 AM.
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 09:59 AM   #886
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

The initial plan was to offer a train per hour, a Zürich/Basel-Milano EuroCity, and additional trains on peak hours (morning/evening/weekend); just like it has been until last Saturday.*

But a few years ago it was decided to offer an half-hourly service on every domestic InterCity line, so Zürich/Basel-Milano EuroCitys will be supplemented by Zürich/Basel-Lugano(-Chiasso) InterCitys, which will likely stop in Kanton Uri (initially in Flüelen, then after upgrading in Altdorf). EuroCitys will continue to be no-stop from Arth Goldau to Bellinzona.

The old line will continue to be used by InterRegio trains, but these will be split into two parts with transhipment in Erstfeld.

The northern part will be made of IR Basel (via Lucerne)/Zürich-Ertsfeld.

The southern part wil be operated as RE10 (RegioExpress line 10) services Erstfeld-Bellinzona-Chiasso(maybe -Como-Milano, for some trains), with stops shown in bold below (plus others beyond Bellinzona).

The two sections will have a guaranteed connection in Erstfeld, and some IR will continue to Göschenen on holydays.

Flüelen
Altdorf
Erstfeld

Amsteg-Silenen
Gurtnellen
Wassen
Göschenen
Airolo
Ambrì-Piotta

Rodi-Fiesso
Faido
Lavorgo

Giornico
Bodio
Biasca
Osogna-Cresciano
Claro
Castione-Arbedo
Bellinzona


*until June 14th there were ony hourly Basel/Zürich-Lugano ICN trains (some continuing to Milano as EC), since June 15th there are horuly Basel/Zürich-Lugano ICN supplemented by two-hourly Zürich-Milano EC, so that on the common section there is a train every 30/30/60 minutes (although it is not an exact interval timetable, is more like 25/35/60). It should become an exactly 30' interval since December 2019, with the opening of the Ceneri Base Tunnel and the end of upgrading works that will restrict capacity in the next years (with the opening of the GBT the number of train slots on the Gotthard line will actually be reduced, not increased, because of these works).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Vaud liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 12:06 PM   #887
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The old line will continue to be used by InterRegio trains, but these will be split into two parts with transhipment in Erstfeld.

The northern part will be made of IR Basel (via Lucerne)/Zürich-Ertsfeld.

The southern part wil be operated as RE10 (RegioExpress line 10) services Erstfeld-Bellinzona-Chiasso(maybe -Como-Milano, for some trains), with stops shown in bold below (plus others beyond Bellinzona).

The two sections will have a guaranteed connection in Erstfeld, and some IR will continue to Göschenen on holydays.

Flüelen
Altdorf
Erstfeld

Amsteg-Silenen
Gurtnellen
Wassen
Göschenen
Airolo
Ambrì-Piotta

Rodi-Fiesso
Faido
Lavorgo

Giornico
Bodio
Biasca
Osogna-Cresciano
Claro
Castione-Arbedo
Bellinzona
What was the thinking behind such a decision? If connection in Erstfeld is provided anyway why not have just one train?

Also I wonder if it would not be possible to make Como the southern terminus of all trains not continuing to Milan. It would be an improvement in cross-border traffic without further demands on the busy Milan central station. Or perhaps I'm reading it all wrong? It's not a part of Switzerland I'm particularly familiar with.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 12:25 PM   #888
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

The section north of Erstfeld is expected to have much more traffic thant the one south of it. Probably something like 10.000 (just south of Arth Goldau) versus 1.000 (Erstfeld-Göschenen outside holydays)...so the northern part will use loco hauled sets with at least 6 cocaches (or even 8/9), the southern section will use Flirt EMUs (comparable to 3 or 4 IR coaches). However there is no doubt that it would be better to join the two parts, using 2 or 3 Flirt sets coupled together until Erstfeld, and continuing with just one beyond Erstfeld (exactly what BLS is doing on Bern-Brig local trains, splitting them in Spiez).

Milano-Como needs additional (and cheaper) trains outside EuroCitys for local traffic, and it is possible that these will be joined with Como-Chiasso-Erstfeld trains. This is just a supposition, thought. Things may change in 6 years.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #889
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

Thank you Coccodrillo for the extensive reply. As I travel regularly between Mendrisio and Bellinzona I've noticed the trains leave Bellinzona half empty going north. Just wondering whether there really is the need for more than one train per hour except perhaps before 8.00 to connect beyond the Gotthard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #890
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Thank you Coccodrillo for the extensive reply. As I travel regularly between Mendrisio and Bellinzona I've noticed the trains leave Bellinzona half empty going north. Just wondering whether there really is the need for more than one train per hour except perhaps before 8.00 to connect beyond the Gotthard.
This is very common phenomena in Switzerland wherever trains cross the language border. Here in Basel area trains between German and French speaking stations are noticeably (up to 50%) emptier than without such a boundary. Plus in your case it takes a long time to get from Bellinzona to the next large town north, too long for commuting to work.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #891
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Thank you Coccodrillo for the extensive reply. As I travel regularly between Mendrisio and Bellinzona I've noticed the trains leave Bellinzona half empty going north. Just wondering whether there really is the need for more than one train per hour except perhaps before 8.00 to connect beyond the Gotthard.
There are several reasons for that.
- Its cheaper the run the same length train the whole day than to continually change the size of your consist to match demand.
- SBB has contracts with the Canton and the Federation that stipulate how many trains it runs, at what times.
- SBB operates on a "supply" model. They supply a certain level of service, in order to entice people to make public transport their main mode of transport. As a result they make a lot of money of passes (there are about 400000 Swiss with a Generalabonnement) but that only works if you also make it possible for people to travel early in the morning and late at night. It's one of the reasons also why SBB eventually wants to run all its IC services half hourly.
- SBB productivity is pretty high, so they only need about an average load of 30% on IC services to be profitable.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2014, 03:21 AM   #892
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

700 days left until the GBT opens.
__________________
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2014, 07:47 AM   #893
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
I was trying to find the ventilation shaft by Sedrun on Google satellite view. The horizontal access from Sedrun is about 1000 m and then the vent shaft is another 450 m beyond.

There's a view of what it would look like in the video operational ventilation:
http://www.alptransit.ch/en/media/sh...ntilation.html
Right at the end of this video.

After scrolling around on Google, I still can't identify the vent exit. Does anyone know where exactly it is? Cheers.
AT finally has a decent pic up of the Sedrun vent:
__________________
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2014, 10:14 AM   #894
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

The Gotthard and Lötschberg base tunnels are just two of the many AlpTransit options that were studied in the 1960s-1970s. And for each option, there were different variants (for example, the GBT and LBT were initially planned to be 45 and 28 km long, but they have been lengthened to 57 and 35 km respectively).

Here a 17 MB file showing some of the options studied in 1971 (others have been studied later): http://www.alexandria.admin.ch/KOP%2037057.pdf

It is in German, but with many maps, the most interesting being on pages 24 (general overview) and from 37 (the options in detail). At the time the old Lötschberg line was mainly single track, so one option was to double it. In the end, they choose to double "quickly" the old line (works were finished around 1991), and to postpone the construction of one or more new lines (which weren't called "AlpTransit" at that time). The doubling of the old line is the reason why the LBT is mainly single track. It would have been better to build directly a double track base tunnel leaving the old line single track, but at the time funds to double the line were available, to build a base tunnel were not. Don't forget that between this report and the opening of the LBT 36 years have gone, and between the report and the opening of the CBT nearly 50 years will have passed. It is like discussing now about a project to be opened in 2064...

Other links:

https://biblio.parlament.ch/e-docs/75176.pdf
http://www.rhb.ch/fileadmin/user_upl...ica_2012_3.pdf
http://www.alexandria.admin.ch/AT1.htm
http://www.alexandria.admin.ch/AT2.htm
http://www.alexandria.admin.ch/AT3.htm
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Vaud, Bart_LCY, Jordbcn liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2014, 01:05 PM   #895
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

South Bound excavation of the CBT

This is getting very close to breakthrough. As at 25 July, there are only 859 metres left to bore in the eastern tube.
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #896
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

Ceneri Base Tunnel: two-year delay possible

Ongoing legal proceedings jeopardise the time schedule for construction of the Ceneri Base Tunnel. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd (ATG) today comprehensively informed the NRLA Supervisory Delegation (NAD) about the possible further implementation scenarios. The most likely scenario is for opening to take place at the end of 2021 instead of the end of 2019 as originally planned. The associated additional costs can be absorbed by existing risk provisions within the overall NRLA credit.
In September 2013, appeals were lodged with the Swiss Federal Administrative Court against the awards made by AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd of the railway systems lots for the Ceneri Base Tunnel (Railway Track & Logistics and Railway Systems & Overall Coordination). In March 2014, the Federal Administrative Court partly upheld the appeals. The contested awards were annulled and the matter was referred back to ATG. Consequent on the judgements of the Federal Administrative Court, ATG decided to terminated its proceedings regarding award of the railway infrastructure systems for the Ceneri Base Tunnel and to issue a new invitation for tenders as soon as possible. In connection with the entire awards process, several appeals are currently pending with the Federal Administrative Court as well as the Federal Tribunal.
2019 only in the best case – 2021 most likely
At the regular meeting of the NRLA Supervisory Delegation (NAD), ATG today informed the ultimate parliamentary supervisory body about the possible further implementation scenarios for the Ceneri Base Tunnel and their effects on the costs and timing.
According to the current assessment of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd, the most likely scenario is for opening to take place in December 2021. This will apply if the legal proceedings result in new invitations to tender for both lots being issued before the end of 2014. In this case, the additional costs for longer availability of systems and installations as well organisational measures would amount to around 100 million Swiss francs.
According to ATG's analysis, the formerly planned date for opening of the Ceneri Base Tunnel to coincide with revision of the railway timetable in December 2019 can only be met if, by the end of September 2014, the Federal Tribunal issues legally binding rulings that the awards shall be granted to the original recipients. The additional costs would then amount to around 10 million Swiss francs.
Depending on the Tribunal's decision, opening at the end of 2020, or only at the start of 2023, is also possible. According to ATG's analysis, in the worst case, additional costs of 144 million Swiss francs would be incurred.
As soon as the Tribunal's definitive ruling is published, the effects on the future traffic offerings must also be evaluated. In particular, the Ceneri Base Tunnel is the precondition for introduction of the half-hourly service interval between Lugano and Locarno to be possible. In addition, the Chiasso branch of the four-metre corridor for goods traffic can only become operational when trains can travel through the Ceneri Base Tunnel.


http://www.alptransit.ch/en/media/pr...84d6d4ff21c01a
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2014, 05:58 AM   #897
Luganese1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 301
Likes (Received): 72

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
as soon as the Tribunal's definitive ruling is published, the effects on the future traffic offerings must also be evaluated. In particular, the Ceneri Base Tunnel is the precondition for introduction of the half-hourly service interval between Lugano and Locarno to be possible. In addition, the Chiasso branch of the four-metre corridor for goods traffic can only become operational when trains can travel through the Ceneri Base Tunnel.

... and that is the biggest problem!
Luganese1980 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2014, 06:15 AM   #898
Luganese1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 301
Likes (Received): 72

... and here the good news:

Railway infrastructure systems for the Ceneri Base Tunnel: Swiss Supreme Court confirms awards by AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd

The Swiss Federal Supreme Court has upheld two appeals against decisions of the Swiss Federal Administrative Court of March 2014 in connection with the award of railway infrastructure systems for the Ceneri Base Tunnel. The judgements of the Federal Administrative Court have been annulled. The original decisions of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd for the awards are confirmed. The formerly planned date for opening the Ceneri Base Tunnel to commercial traffic along with the revised railway timetable in December 2019 therefore remains the goal of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd.

On August 12, 2013, AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd awarded the "Railway Track & Logistics" lot to the Mons Ceneris Consortium, under the lead management of Mancini&Marti AG, Bellinzona, for the price of around CHF 96 million, and the "Railway Systems & Overall Coordination“ lot to the CPC Consortium, under the lead management of Cablex AG, Berne, for the price of around CHF 129 million. In September 2013, appeals against these two awards were lodged with the Swiss Federal Administrative Court. In March 2014, the Federal Administrative Court partly upheld the appeals. The contested awards were annulled and the matter was referred back to ATG.

The two original recipients of the awards, Mons Ceneris and CPC, appealed against these judgements at the Federal Supreme Court. The highest Swiss court has now upheld their appeals and thereby confirmed the decisions by AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd to grant the awards to the original recipients.

17/9/2014 - alptransit.ch

Luganese1980 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2014, 07:14 AM   #899
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

I don't know the Swiss legal system, so is that the end of the matter? No further appeals are possible?
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2014, 09:13 AM   #900
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
I don't know the Swiss legal system, so is that the end of the matter? No further appeals are possible?
Yes, a supreme court ruling should be definitive IIRC.
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
alps

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium