daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 8th, 2016, 09:29 AM   #1061
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,199
Likes (Received): 766

Although excavated material might just look always the same, it is not always suitable for reuse. Sometimes not ever to make embarkments for roads. Most of the material extracted from the CBT cannot be used at all. That's what has been explained on open days for public visits. Maybe this material might have some kind of reuse (like the artificial islands in Lake Lucerne, built with rock from the GBT, and now used as a bird refuge), but it is not needed now and it is not worth to transport it far away. Certainly, this material cannot be used to build roads and similar infrastrucutres.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 8th, 2016, 06:37 PM   #1062
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1506

Why is it unsuitable? It's not radioactive or anything, right?
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2016, 08:06 PM   #1063
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 755
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Although excavated material might just look always the same, it is not always suitable for reuse. Sometimes not ever to make embarkments for roads. Most of the material extracted from the CBT cannot be used at all. That's what has been explained on open days for public visits. Maybe this material might have some kind of reuse (like the artificial islands in Lake Lucerne, built with rock from the GBT, and now used as a bird refuge), but it is not needed now and it is not worth to transport it far away. Certainly, this material cannot be used to build roads and similar infrastrucutres.
Yeah, that's the trouble in a landlocked country like Switzerland. In my native Denmark, surrounded by shallow seas, they use excavated soil and rock (from the ongoing metro expansion project) to create new neighbourhoods on the waterside. Switzerland can hardly do likewise.
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2016, 08:20 PM   #1064
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,731
Likes (Received): 766

They have lakes
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2016, 12:46 AM   #1065
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Any idea when the final breakthrough in CBT is going to occur? Assuming there is no break of some kind it ought to be in the next 2-4 weeks.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2016, 08:33 AM   #1066
Short
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lismore
Posts: 215
Likes (Received): 165

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Why is it unsuitable? It's not radioactive or anything, right?
In simple terms, it may not be able to handle crush loads, crumbling under pressure. It could be too porous for some areas, making it unsuitable or unstable in waterlogged areas. It might be too jagged and rugged to pack down suitably, leaving too many airpockets or holes in the landfill. There is this or a combination of these plus more reasons as to why the material from one place is not suitable for another place. It might be suitable for a particular use in a certain place and circumstance but it may not be economical to transport.
Short no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2016, 04:16 PM   #1067
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Any idea when the final breakthrough in CBT is going to occur? Assuming there is no break of some kind it ought to be in the next 2-4 weeks.
From the latest AlpTransit newsletter:
AlpTransit Gotthard News from 01/03/2016
Only 150 days until the opening of the Gotthard Base Tunnel. For the first trip through the longest tunnel in the world you can now win tickets. In a few days, on 21 January 2016 will be held the breakthrough of the Ceneri Base Tunnel. Track the breakthrough live on Ticino television. We wish you a good start in 2016. Media office of AlpTransit Gotthard AG
Not sure if both will be timed to break through at once, or two separate events will occur.
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2016, 09:52 PM   #1068
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,199
Likes (Received): 766

Where did you read that? Only on the newsletter? They published nothing on their website.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2016, 10:24 PM   #1069
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 755
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
They have lakes
So they do, but those lakes essentially essentially act as reservoirs for water that will subsequently flow downs toward the sea through rivers. If you fill the lakes you will most likely create overflow in the downstream waterways.
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2016, 11:01 PM   #1070
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Where did you read that? Only on the newsletter? They published nothing on their website.
Yeah, from the 150 days to go newsletter.

As at 1 Jan 2016, there are only 110 metres left to excavate (that's both east and west combined) so to break through in 20 days from then shouldn't be a difficult challenge.
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2016, 03:25 PM   #1071
Luganese1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 301
Likes (Received): 72

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Where did you read that? Only on the newsletter? They published nothing on their website.
See also:

http://www.rsi.ch/news/svizzera/Mont...i-6706000.html
__________________

Coccodrillo liked this post
Luganese1980 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2016, 07:22 PM   #1072
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,199
Likes (Received): 766

Today some loaded freight trains ran across the GBT for the first time:

https://www.alptransit.ch/it/stampa/...-san-gottardo/

https://www.alptransit.ch/de/fotos/g...l/testbetrieb/

The press release doesn't clearly tell it, but these were certainly dedicated only to tests (I mean, with real goods on board to simulate the behavior of of freight carried on open wagons, but not bound for a particular destination - just for the tests). A piggyback train carrying trucks was also tested.

Then next Thursday 21st Janaury the breakthrough of the CBT will be transmitted live on the Swiss TV and on the ibnternet, between 10.00 and 13.15 (with a short regular TV news emission in between): http://www.rsi.ch/news/svizzera/AlpT...i-6703864.html

The second tube of the CBT will follow a few days later.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

TedStriker, dimlys1994, Zaz965 liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2016, 07:55 PM   #1073
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,973
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
So they do, but those lakes essentially essentially act as reservoirs for water that will subsequently flow downs toward the sea through rivers. If you fill the lakes you will most likely create overflow in the downstream waterways.
Which is not a Swiss problem, because these rivers are in Italy...
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2016, 11:43 PM   #1074
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

I see the workers have installed what appears to be temporary ventilation fans at the Vigana portal (viewable on the webcam), for the upcoming break though ceremony.
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2016, 10:29 PM   #1075
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,199
Likes (Received): 766

Photos of the interior of the Gotthard tunnel, including the stub tunnel in Göschenen:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...rd_rail_tunnel

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kecko/with/22704985732/

Plans of the spiral tunnels:

http://www.e-rara.ch/zuz/doi/10.3931/e-rara-34716

And AlpTransit AG's new website: https://www.alptransit.ch/en/home/
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

dimlys1994 liked this post
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2016, 01:20 AM   #1076
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1506

It looks like they started a plan to dig out a parallel bore in the original Gotthard Tunnel (which would bring it to 4 tracks, I think). Is that correct?
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2016, 01:03 PM   #1077
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 755
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
It looks like they started a plan to dig out a parallel bore in the original Gotthard Tunnel (which would bring it to 4 tracks, I think). Is that correct?
I think you're referring to the Gotthard Road Tunnel. It has long had a parallel "emergency tunnel" with the capacity to be expanded to a second road passage. A project is underway, formally motivated by the need to renovate substantially the old 2-track tunnel, to undertake this expansion. However, like so many things in Switzerland, this decision is being challenged through a referendum.
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #1078
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1506

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
I think you're referring to the Gotthard Road Tunnel. It has long had a parallel "emergency tunnel" with the capacity to be expanded to a second road passage. A project is underway, formally motivated by the need to renovate substantially the old 2-track tunnel, to undertake this expansion. However, like so many things in Switzerland, this decision is being challenged through a referendum.
No, looking at the existing Gotthard Rail Tunnel. At the North Portal there is a second bore extending into the mountain.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2016, 05:04 PM   #1079
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
No, looking at the existing Gotthard Rail Tunnel. At the North Portal there is a second bore extending into the mountain.
That's old. There are four tracks in to the mountain for a few hundred meters (just the continuation of Göschenen station), but they quickly become just two tracks in a single bore.
There is no project to enlarge this tunnel.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2016, 05:22 PM   #1080
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

I gather that steam trains were first run in the Gotthard when it opened, judging from all the soot still present on the old brickwork.
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
alps

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium