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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:27 AM   #1121
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A "vintage" scheme of the line (current siuation) in Erstfeld
That's one of the many old projects. The oldest serious project for the GBT should be around 70 years old now.

This one provided for two new spiral tunnels (red in the drawing) near Giornico, to gain elevation before entering a shorter base tunnel.

The existing spiral tunnels (in black) are these:

https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=it&to...9267.50&zoom=8
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Old May 15th, 2016, 12:39 PM   #1122
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You never end to learn. I though to know the existence of any railway around my home region, but that wansn't the case:

https://www.google.ch/maps/@45.98688...7i13312!8i6656

This tunnel was built for a Chiasso-Biasca railway, but not the one in use today. It is thus older than the line finally built, as the planned line was to terminate to Biasca, at a time they were still discussing which line to build, if the Gotthard or the Lukmanier/Lucomagno. In the end, the Gotthard project was chosen, and the other one abandoned.

The tunnel was built by another company, not the one that in 1874 opened the section of line which we know today. This company built very little before being dissolved, and this is part of that "very little". I don't know where is the other end of the tunnel, maybe it doesn't even exist. The line which has finally opened run in another tunnel ("Paradiso", around 700 m long) located below the abandoned one.

The abandoned tunnel has been used around 60 years ago to cultivate mushrooms.

More infos: http://www.ferrovie.it/forum/viewtop...78735#p1578735 (see the links in the following posts)
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Old May 16th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #1123
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I read a lot about the Gotthard Base Tunnel but nothing is clear for me. The official inauguration would be the 1st of June and the opening celebration for Swiss citizens the next 4th and 5th of June, but the passenger trains would not cross the tunnel until August (and only if they run delayed) until the tunnel will be completely open for regular services from the 11th of December, is it true? But what happens with freight trains? Would they run through the tunnel from June, August o will they wait until December?

Thank you for answering in advance!
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Old May 16th, 2016, 05:23 PM   #1124
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Two IC trains will be rescheduled to run via the base tunnel instead of the summit line in August, and an additional two will be diverted in October.

Delayed IC or EC trains might use the base tunnel at any time from the end of the ceremonies, so from 6th June or so.

They do not want to open the tunnel with full traffic, so from 6th June a few freight trains will use the new tunnel (but most will continue on the old line), from July the number of freight trains in the base tunnel will raise, but still keeping some on the old line, and so on.

Then, from August to November in the afternoon the eastern tube will be used by a "tourist" trains bringing visitors to explore Sedrun station, search for Gottardino above, so only one track will be available to be sued by other trains.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 09:06 PM   #1125
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why not start with a full schedule on the tunnels already, since it is summer and less issues to thinker about the weather...
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Old May 16th, 2016, 09:40 PM   #1126
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To fully test the tunnel without having to worry too much for consequences if problems forcing its closure are found. And also to gain experience with a limited traffic.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 10:07 PM   #1127
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Any industrial process needs a ramp-up phase, because even the best project will show some issues when put into practice (think about safety systems interacting with trains, maintenance schedules, actual cases of trains blocked in the tunnel...), and it's much easier to face them before being under full load.

If the first months will give positive results I would expect more and more trains being rescheduled before the posted timeline
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Old May 16th, 2016, 10:29 PM   #1128
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It it not like opening a long rail tunnel is something completely new in CH.

Other than its length and the presence of an intermediate station, what other operational measures differ?

Is the tunnel ETCS-3 ready?
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Old May 16th, 2016, 11:48 PM   #1129
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Quote:
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why not start with a full schedule on the tunnels already, since it is summer and less issues to thinker about the weather...
International train schedules may not be changed in May or June. They are changed once in a year, in the second weekend of December.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 12:50 AM   #1130
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=576787
Georg Trüb, May 15, 2016, Pollegio
Test run for the inauguration of the new Gotthard Base Tunnel (GBT) on 1st of June 2016. In front of the operation center sud (Betriebszentrale Süd) of the SBB in Pollegio, an Intercity tilt train ICN is running north (to the left) on the "old" mountain line towards the Gotthard, while another ICN (in the foreground) is waiting on the siding of the doubletrack line, which is going to the south portal (direction left) of the new Gotthard Base Tunnel. With this train, the procedures for the opening ceremony were tested and practised this day. Between the dispatching center and the railway line, temporary installations were built for the inauguration ceremony, like stage, stands, tents etc.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 09:13 PM   #1131
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Quote:
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Is the tunnel ETCS-3 ready?
As it will be used with ETCS-2, GSM-R has to be in place. The only difference between -2 and -3 is the loss of track-bound infrastructure such as position reporting by balises, axle counters to determine the completeness of the train, etc. If ETCS-3 is ever developed (which some still doubt), any ETCS-2 track can be converted to level 3 by installing the necessary infrastructure on trains and the control center.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 08:11 AM   #1132
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I'm surprised that they haven't taken down the overhead conveyor belt at Sigirino that was used to transport the spoil from the adit. The last break through was a few months ago, so there's no more spoil to come out.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 04:29 PM   #1133
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I'm surprised that they haven't taken down the overhead conveyor belt at Sigirino that was used to transport the spoil from the adit. The last break through was a few months ago, so there's no more spoil to come out.
Either its a precaution against cave-ins, or they are secretly digging more bunkers attached to the tunnel (this is rather common in Switzerland).
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 06:49 AM   #1134
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Either its a precaution against cave-ins, or they are secretly digging more bunkers attached to the tunnel (this is rather common in Switzerland).
If I had the money, I'd hollow out myself a secret James Bond villain style hideout under some of them mountains.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 11:15 AM   #1135
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If I had the money, I'd hollow out myself a secret James Bond villain style hideout under some of them mountains.
It needs to be close to the entrances though. In the middle you would get 50 C heat if the A/C failed.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 11:17 AM   #1136
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Some conveyor belts are still used to bring in aggregates to produce concrete. There is an unloading station for them here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...210.10&zoom=13

As for the belts going uphill to the feninitive depot on the mountain (https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...120.50&zoom=11), I don't know. If there is still space left on that depot, they might decide to keep the belts here in case other tunnels are built in the region. One such planend tunnels is a narrow gauge railway tunnel that would bring the line from Ponte Tresa directly into Lugano city centre (roughly from here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...514.00&zoom=11). In this case spoil could be brought to Sigirino by trucks, then unloaded, and distributed with the conveyor belts. But I really don't know.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 01:41 AM   #1137
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http://www.railpictures.net/photo/576985/
Georg Trüb, May 15, 2016, Pollegio
Oratorio Madonna di Re (or Chapel of Linmezzo) from the 19th century in Pollegio is passed by Interregio 2417 to Locarno on the current Gotthard line. In this section, for about 2.5 kilometers, the current Gotthard line was relocated from going through the village, to run now parallel with the new Gotthard Base Tunnel line (including a siding track).
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 02:49 AM   #1138
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Quote:
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Some conveyor belts are still used to bring in aggregates to produce concrete. There is an unloading station for them here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...210.10&zoom=13

As for the belts going uphill to the feninitive depot on the mountain (https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...120.50&zoom=11), I don't know. If there is still space left on that depot, they might decide to keep the belts here in case other tunnels are built in the region. One such planend tunnels is a narrow gauge railway tunnel that would bring the line from Ponte Tresa directly into Lugano city centre (roughly from here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...514.00&zoom=11). In this case spoil could be brought to Sigirino by trucks, then unloaded, and distributed with the conveyor belts. But I really don't know.
I was playing around with this map, and I found a layer that seemed to show various rail projects. I noticed that there were proposed tunnels that, when combined with the GBT, would stretch most of the way from Basel to Milan! What is that all about? Are these tunnels all officially proposed? What kind of travel times would result from all of them running?
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 07:08 AM   #1139
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I was playing around with this map, and I found a layer that seemed to show various rail projects. I noticed that there were proposed tunnels that, when combined with the GBT, would stretch most of the way from Basel to Milan! What is that all about? Are these tunnels all officially proposed? What kind of travel times would result from all of them running?
I think they're all possibilities, but some may not be built for 50 years if ever.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 10:40 PM   #1140
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These are the maps of the sectorial plan: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post113673843 (and following posts)

The purpose of the sectorial plan is to reserve space for planned infrastructures to reduce the number of expropriations (avoiding at least new buildings on land that should be used by a public infrastructure in future).

I have no idea of the possible travel times. Zürich-Milan should be around 3 hours from December 2020 with 5 or 6 intermediate stops, so with these extra tunnels and skipping inetrmediate stations one hour could be saved. However, most passenger traffic on the Gotthard line today is to/from intermediate stations and also between them, not between Zürich and Milan, and I don't see that changing. So most trains in the future would still stop in intermediate stations. But we will see in 2050...
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