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Old May 23rd, 2016, 11:04 PM   #1141
Sunfuns
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Official timetable for GBT is not out yet, right? I was wondering what would be the impact on travel times for trains from Basel to Ticino and whether Basel-Milan train would be rerouted from LBT line to GBT line.
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Old May 24th, 2016, 12:13 AM   #1142
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Timetable drafts will be published next Monday on http://www.progetto-orario.ch/. I will comment the timetable once it becomes publicly available.

Existing Basel-Milano trains via the LBT will stay there, those via the GBT (maybe just one or two from December, more later) will be in addition, because they serve different intermediate stops.

Capacity on the Simplon line (LBT-Basel and Geneva) should be increased instead. On this line trains from Milan on Sundays evening are always very well loaded and not so rarely fully sold-out.

Overcrowding on Milan-Zürich is less acute, also because there are more alternatives in the form of RegioExpress Milano-Bellinzona + IC from there.
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Old May 24th, 2016, 12:19 AM   #1143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
These are the maps of the sectorial plan: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post113673843 (and following posts)

The purpose of the sectorial plan is to reserve space for planned infrastructures to reduce the number of expropriations (avoiding at least new buildings on land that should be used by a public infrastructure in future).

I have no idea of the possible travel times. Zürich-Milan should be around 3 hours from December 2020 with 5 or 6 intermediate stops, so with these extra tunnels and skipping inetrmediate stations one hour could be saved. However, most passenger traffic on the Gotthard line today is to/from intermediate stations and also between them, not between Zürich and Milan, and I don't see that changing. So most trains in the future would still stop in intermediate stations. But we will see in 2050...
If a Zürich-Milan journey can be made possible in 2 hours by train I do not see any reason not to have direct non stop schedules. The fact that today most traffic is generated by intermediate stops is due to the fact that the Zürich-Milan train route is not competitive to the airplane or the car as it takes too long. I am sure that if it can be made much shorter the traffic between these two cities will be increased drastically. We are talking about two of the biggest economical centers in Europe.
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Old May 24th, 2016, 12:29 AM   #1144
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Even 3 h which will be achieved in few years is very competitive with other modes of travel. Probably would need to drive at night to be anywhere close to that by car.

Both cities are large and important, but one needs to be careful about projections for cross-border traffic. It tends to be not that great. There is a frequent Zurich-Paris traffic (ca 4h), but as far as I've noticed most passengers are using those trains for intra France or intra Switzerland travel.
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Old May 24th, 2016, 12:44 AM   #1145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
But we will see in 2050...
Us in 2050 checking out the works for the new Zurich - Milan Basis Tunnel:



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Old May 25th, 2016, 12:11 AM   #1146
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Cool Gotthard 360° video from Tauchen Sie ein in den neuen Tunnel article at srf.ch.

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Old May 25th, 2016, 01:47 AM   #1147
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I only speak English, but I'm starting to recognise a reasonable number of German words from watching videos like this over the years. Thanks.
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Old May 25th, 2016, 12:13 PM   #1148
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A website with hundreds of old documents about AlpTransit (in general, inclunding the LBT and what was never built like the Splügen Base Tunnel) has been published: https://www.alptransit-portal.ch/

It is mainly in DE-FR-IT, but with interesting maps like these:



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Old May 30th, 2016, 07:56 PM   #1149
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I see from the official count down http://www.gottardo2016.ch/en that the tunnel opens at 2am on Wednesday, local Swiss time. This seems a strange time to open; in the middle of the night.
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Old May 30th, 2016, 09:12 PM   #1150
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It allows switchover with minimal disruption.
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Old May 30th, 2016, 10:19 PM   #1151
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The counter is linked to each one's computer, at Swiss time the 0 will be at midday June 1st.

The line responsibility will change from AlpTransit Gotthard AG to the SBB officially at midnight 31.5/1.6. But there is no precise point in time from which the line will be open, for instance no regular trains are expected before June 6. And from that time, only a few freight trains will be diverted, with more and more adding over the next months. Basically, the majority of traffic will continue to use the old line until September.

**********************

The draft timetable 2017 has been published today on http://www.progetto-orario.ch/.

Two tables are relevant for the GBT:
http://www.progetto-orario.ch/filead...s/2017/600.pdf (Gotthard line, long distance)
http://www.progetto-orario.ch/filead...s/2017/631.pdf (Gotthard line, regional trains in Ticino)

North-south there will be:
* 24 IC to Lugano and EC to Milano (15 and 9 respectively)
* 18 IR to Erstfeld, of which 14+1 connecting to RE from Erstfeld over the old line
* 2 additional IC trains to Lugano on weekends only aimed for tourists

On the old line:
* 14 daily RE trains
* 1 extra RE train on Friday, Saturday, Sunday
* 3 RE trains from Airolo down to Bellinzona (along the southern ramp, which is more populated than the northern ramp)
* 2 IR trains on tourist season, timetable not yet known, at least one of them with panoramic coaches

IC/EC = InterCity/EuroCity fast trains (EC are the international ones)
IR = InterRegio, RE = Regio Express semi-fast trains

Looking at the timetable one can have a hint of the maintenance pattern: on the nights Sa/Su, Su/Mo and Mo/Tu one tube will be closed for respectively 8, 8 and 6 hours. As the IC trains cross each other inside the tunnel, on Saturday and Sudnay evening the 21.09 from Zürich is delayed to 21.32, so that the 21.43 from Lugano can pass in the base tunnel which is single track at that time. Tehre are two crossovers inside the tunnel, but these will not be used in regular service nor for planned maintenance. They will be used only if one section of the tunnel will have to be closed for more than planned on these three nights a week.

Note that if the 21.09 IC train was to be diverted on the mountain line rather than delayed to 21.32, it would arrive in Bellinzona slightly later.

A final note: today there are 8 EC trains a day, so next year there will be one more. However, until 2008 there were 15, so quality is still not at par with the past. EC trains will obviously be faster, but overcrowded on peak days, with people standing or sitting on the floor (like yesterday, my experience), something one would not expect on long distance fast trains.
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Old May 30th, 2016, 11:41 PM   #1152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_LCY View Post
Cool Gotthard 360° video from Tauchen Sie ein in den neuen Tunnel article at srf.ch.
The same in English and Italian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0kdT5oEN2Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wobOx5mLNs

Tunnel crossing in 54 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XLPBKxn6Bo

Flying above the Gotthard 360°:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj0NQMhw818

Tunnel projects in 1970:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIV6DEN5Hqs

Gotthardbahn in 1982:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBEBV6d8SMY
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Old May 30th, 2016, 11:52 PM   #1153
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Yesterday there were also disrupted services in the Milan area, people lost their coincidence to Switzerland and were allowed to board EC 20 with no seat assigned. The train was completely full with people standing everywhere, some sleeping on the floors.

Starting from Easter period I noticed that FFS/TI are now using double trainsets ETR610+ETR610; maybe this is the plan to increase capacity on the route, considering that FFS have ordered four more tilting trains from Alstom. However I think that different rolling stock should be used... I hope that the Giruno will have more seats and more space per seat (considering also luggage room).

I may have a limited experience on ECs, but I always travelled the whole route from Milan to Zurich and I can confirm that
1) the majority of traffic is Milan - CH but not necessarily Milan - ZH; many people get off in Lugano or Bellinzona;
2) within CH the train is intensively used for internal traffic (something that the 610 does not handle very well, see above...)
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Old May 31st, 2016, 12:03 AM   #1154
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http://www.railpictures.net/photo/577979/
Georg Trüb, May 27, 2016, Erstfeld
The newest product of Stadler Rail, the "VSHST" (Very Short High Speed Train) for lines with low passenger demand ;-) No, this is a joke: 2 cab moduls with simulator of the future "EC 250" (Stadler's label) or "Giruno" (buzzard) for the SBB. This cab moduls are part of the exhibition in Erstfeld and Biasca on the occasion of the opening event for the new Gotthard Base Tunnel next weekend. The 29 ordered "Giruno" trains for 250 km/h will run between Zürich and Milan from 2019.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 12:23 AM   #1155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I love how the 1970 projections are much shorter than what was ultimately built.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 12:56 AM   #1156
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If you look at my post #1148 you can see the so called Tödi-Greina line (Ziegelbrücke-Trun-Biasca). It was less direct than the GBT, and didn't serve the (relatively) "big" towns of Chur, Chiavenna and Lecco like the Spügen. But it would have involved shorter tunnels, around 28 and 35 km, more than the GBT but separate and shallower (but still more than 1000 m depth), thus supposed to be easier to build. Also the LBT was planend shorter, 28 instead of 34.5 km, and the CBT, roughly 13 instead of 15.4 km.

Personally, I would have preferred the Locarno-Meiringen option ("Gotthard West"), a it would have brought greater reductions in travel times from Ticino to Bern and western Switzerland. However, it would have required more tunnels other than the base tunnel, and thus be more expensive.

The Splügen option was discarted, like the original one in the XIX century, because it did not serve internal traffic to Ticino canton. Internal traffic is the main reason why the LBT was built.

(by the way, it's curious how little was written about the LBT here, which still is the longest rail tunnel through a mountain in the world, and the second one from Wednesday until the opening of the Brenner base tunnel)
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Old June 1st, 2016, 04:31 PM   #1157
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Too much silence around here today...

Probably the whole country is partying too hard, cows included
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Old June 1st, 2016, 04:52 PM   #1158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Too much silence around here today...

Probably the whole country is partying too hard, cows included
Sim, estou festejando essa obra magnifica de engenharia aqui no Brasil. Viva!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old June 1st, 2016, 04:54 PM   #1159
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Old June 1st, 2016, 05:00 PM   #1160
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The new Gotthard Base Tunnel | Euromaxx

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