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Old September 4th, 2008, 09:22 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The other Dude View Post
huge pic of the whole lower valley ( you can even see the NEAT construction site in the back of the valley. and even my house :-D
http://www.ur.ch/dateimanager/sicht-urnersee-06.jpg
I'm envious - what a beautiful place.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #102
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But I digress . . .

Is there a correlation between the percentages above and the bar graph below? While I see the connection between the Sigirino bar graph and the 56% quoted, I'm not seeing the 75.1% represented in the bar graph - what am I missing (besides a brain)?

Thanks - Kent
In the graph you only see the progress of the TBMs, if you add all the target lengths you will only come just under 40 km. That's significantly less then the total of 153.3 km of tunnels. Not all of the tunnel and especially not all the supporting tunnels are build with a TBM, so there's your difference.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 05:27 PM   #103
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The GBT is divided in five parts, each composed of two parallel tubes. Two parts have been completed by TBM, two are being excavated with TBM and one is being excavatcavated by drill&blast.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/akt...iten_gotth.php

Sigirino is an acces tunnel for the Ceneri Base Tunnel. This tunnel will be excavated mainly from there, also because the southern portal is in a very unpractical position. As of 1st September, the Sigirino acces has been excavated for 1572 m, or 68%.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 01:35 PM   #104
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Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of September 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 115.2 km, or 75.7%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in August 2008 was 877 m.

As of September 1, 2008, 1572 m, or 68 %, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 05:45 PM   #105
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Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of October 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 118.4 km, or 77.2%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in September 2008 was 2,3 km.

As of Oktober 1, 2008, 1813 m, or 78 %, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 02:18 PM   #106
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Well, as one says in Switzerland, "Sie reissen sich nicht die Beine aus..." (Transl.: they're in no great hurry.) Eight hundred metres progress in August - presumably because everybody was away on vacation. That's a far cry from the frenzied pace of the Chinese, working 7/7, 24/24 including Christmas night and Buddhist Passover on their hundreds of kilometers of tunnels. But, it must be said, by our European standards this is a bl**dy impressive project. And, in all fairness, I understand that their slow pace lately has been because the rock in what is now the main drilling zone continually threatens to come down in a heap.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:12 AM   #107
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I am very sure that the Gotthard is been drilled 7/7, 24/24. Alone the cost of unused drill machines would by far to hight to leave the tunnel for vacations.

And this will be the largest tunnel of the world, I have no idea why you talking about "by European standards".
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Old October 7th, 2008, 03:50 PM   #108
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Well, I checked with older pages of alptransit.ch: the drilling actually stopped for summer vacations for several weeks in August. That said, I don't know whether they don't simply use this break for necessary maintenance work.

As regards your other question, yes of course, Gotthard is the longest railway tunnel in history, but I was speaking of infrastructure in the larger sense. I'm gobsmacked at how the Chinese for example have been able, literally in a few years, to knock up a highspeed line from Central-Eastern China (Wuhan I think...) down to Canton. That's 800 km through mountains, about half of which in tunnels, and one fourth on viaducts. I don't think the planners in Beijing would dither back and forth about a bagatelle like Zimmerberg 2.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
the rock excavated from the mountain?

They have build some small islands in a lake, closed some rock quarries, used to manufacture concrete for the tunnel itself and other projects, used for the construction of the 11 km of railway outside the tunnel or stocked where possible.

The valley at page 24 of the PDF below has been filled with rock. The islands are shown at page 30.

When possible, rock has been transported with belt conveyors, trains and even boats instead of trucks.

See http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/p..._rail_link.pdf (PDF, 6 MB)
Ace, thanks. Was always fascinated about where it went!
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Old October 8th, 2008, 12:48 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
I'm gobsmacked at how the Chinese for example have been able, literally in a few years, to knock up a highspeed line from Central-Eastern China (Wuhan I think...) down to Canton. That's 800 km through mountains, about half of which in tunnels, and one fourth on viaducts. I don't think the planners in Beijing would dither back and forth about a bagatelle like Zimmerberg 2.
Yes, that's very impressive! Anyway, also in the PR China, they started to put more emphasis on economics in their infrastructure projects.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 02:27 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
As regards your other question, yes of course, Gotthard is the longest railway tunnel in history, but I was speaking of infrastructure in the larger sense. I'm gobsmacked at how the Chinese for example have been able, literally in a few years, to knock up a highspeed line from Central-Eastern China (Wuhan I think...) down to Canton. That's 800 km through mountains, about half of which in tunnels, and one fourth on viaducts. I don't think the planners in Beijing would dither back and forth about a bagatelle like Zimmerberg 2.
I agree with you on the Zimmerberg 2. That's a polical thing.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Well, I checked with older pages of alptransit.ch: the drilling actually stopped for summer vacations for several weeks in August. That said, I don't know whether they don't simply use this break for necessary maintenance work.
The break is for both reasons, holidays and maintenance of the TMBs.

Quote:
Press release of 08.10.2008

Successful drive into the Piora syncline from Faido
Driving the Gotthard Base Tunnel through the Piora syncline is progressing well: the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel has already cut through 74 percent of this geologically challenging zone. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd expects cutting of the east tunnel through the Piora to be completed in mid-October 2008.

At the end of August 2008, the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel was parked around 100 m ahead of the Piora syncline. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd then drove a core bore with a diameter of approximately 10 centimetres through the Piora. The results of this bore confirm the forecast that was made based on earlier exploratory bores in this area: at tunnel level, the Piora syncline is about 150 m long and composed of dolomitic rock that is hard and bears no water.
Since September 29, 2008, the first tunnel boring machine has been traversing the Piora syncline. The average daily advance rate is around 10 m. To prevent the tunnel boring machine from becoming jammed under the high pressure conditions, steel rings are being installed at intervals of 1 m behind the cutting head. Also immediately behind the cutting head, a shotcrete seal is being applied to protect the cut surface. Finally, approximately 25 m behind the cutting head, a 30 cm thick shotcrete ring is being constructed.
Some 74 percent of the Piora has already been cut through. To date, the rock behaviour has been stable. There have been no indications of unacceptable deformations, and no water has been encountered. Provided that construction continues to progress at this good rate, the east tunnel will have crossed the Piora syncline as from mid-October 2008.
The drive in the west tunnel is currently 1,600 m behind the east tunnel. The tunnel boring machine in the west tunnel is expected to reach the Piora syncline in the first quarter of 2009.

Status of work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

Construction work on the Gotthard axis is still on schedule. On the Ceneri Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, at Sigirino 78% of the window adit had been excavated. There is currently no driving work in progress on the main tunnels.
On the Gotthard Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages, 118.4 km, or 77 %, had been excavated. At Erstfeld, both tunnel boring machines are advancing very well at
14 - 17 m per day. At Amsteg, concreting of the vault will be completed by the end of 2008. At Sedrun, driving in the west tunnel towards the south is progressing according to plan. Driving in the east tunnel is taking place in a geologically difficult zone which, at more than 100 m, is considerably longer than forecast. At Bodio, concreting the inner lining of both tunnels was completed in summer 2008.
Provided that all continues to proceed as planned, the main breakthrough on the Gotthard Base Tunnel will take place in the first half of 2011. Commercial operation of the Gotthard Base Tunnel with scheduled train services is planned to start at the end of 2017.
From http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/akt...?jahr=2008#383

Note that the expected main breakthrough is scheduled now for the first half of 2011, instead of autumn 2011.

There about 35 km left. If boring continues at a speed of 2,2 km per month as today (except in this short Piora zone) the main breakthrough could be at the beginning of 2010.

And considering that one the Lötschberg base tunnel the breakthrough was in April 2005, and the opening in June 2007, the Gotthard base tunnel could be opened between June 2012 and 2013. But apparently the builders are very pessimistics and say that the tunnel will open in 2017.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 01:15 PM   #113
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Well, I myself lived in CH in "my youth" and I would not be surprised that they should have padded their estimates. I know of no people like the Swiss who hate negative surprises (unlike the French who "aiment la pagaille" - or at least accept it), including delays and budget overruns. All constuction plans - as well as the time tables of trains, BTW - therefore tend to be overly cautious to assure the service providers that even if things start going wrong the plans can still be honoured.

What's the odds that they'll come out of the Gotthard work with a couple of billions CHF of unspent money? And that they'll be "very surprised" and suggest that this "windfall" may be spent on connecting railway work such as... hey, Zimmerberg? Pretty strong, I'd have said.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:46 PM   #114
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There wont be any extra money from the Gotthard Base tunnel. The reason is mostly because the safety standards have been rised, so extra money is needed. But maybe in the end they will need less extra money then expected. The Bahn 2000 (Mattstetten - Rothrist) was cheaper than calculated.
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Old October 18th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #115
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The Piora zone has been traversed without any big problem.

Quote:
Pressemitteilung vom 08.10.2008

Successful drive into the Piora syncline from Faido
Driving the Gotthard Base Tunnel through the Piora syncline is progressing well: the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel has already cut through 74 percent of this geologically challenging zone. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd expects cutting of the east tunnel through the Piora to be completed in mid-October 2008.

At the end of August 2008, the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel was parked around 100 m ahead of the Piora syncline. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd then drove a core bore with a diameter of approximately 10 centimetres through the Piora. The results of this bore confirm the forecast that was made based on earlier exploratory bores in this area: at tunnel level, the Piora syncline is about 150 m long and composed of dolomitic rock that is hard and bears no water.
Since September 29, 2008, the first tunnel boring machine has been traversing the Piora syncline. The average daily advance rate is around 10 m. To prevent the tunnel boring machine from becoming jammed under the high pressure conditions, steel rings are being installed at intervals of 1 m behind the cutting head. Also immediately behind the cutting head, a shotcrete seal is being applied to protect the cut surface. Finally, approximately 25 m behind the cutting head, a 30 cm thick shotcrete ring is being constructed.
Some 74 percent of the Piora has already been cut through. To date, the rock behaviour has been stable. There have been no indications of unacceptable deformations, and no water has been encountered. Provided that construction continues to progress at this good rate, the east tunnel will have crossed the Piora syncline as from mid-October 2008.
The drive in the west tunnel is currently 1,600 m behind the east tunnel. The tunnel boring machine in the west tunnel is expected to reach the Piora syncline in the first quarter of 2009.

Status of work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

Construction work on the Gotthard axis is still on schedule. On the Ceneri Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, at Sigirino 78% of the window adit had been excavated. There is currently no driving work in progress on the main tunnels.
On the Gotthard Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages, 118.4 km, or 77 %, had been excavated. At Erstfeld, both tunnel boring machines are advancing very well at
14 - 17 m per day. At Amsteg, concreting of the vault will be completed by the end of 2008. At Sedrun, driving in the west tunnel towards the south is progressing according to plan. Driving in the east tunnel is taking place in a geologically difficult zone which, at more than 100 m, is considerably longer than forecast. At Bodio, concreting the inner lining of both tunnels was completed in summer 2008.
Provided that all continues to proceed as planned, the main breakthrough on the Gotthard Base Tunnel will take place in the first half of 2011. Commercial operation of the Gotthard Base Tunnel with scheduled train services is planned to start at the end of 2017.
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Old November 4th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #116
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Communiqué of 03.11.2008

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

As of November 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 120.5 km, or 78.6%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in October 2008 was 2,1 km.

As of November 1, 2008, 2263 m, or 98 %, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #117
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Communiqué of 02.12.2008

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of December 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 120.5 km, or 80.2 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in November 2008 was 2.4 km.

On the Ceneri, an important milestone could be celebrated. On November 6, 2008, at Sigirino, breakthrough of the access tunnel took place.

from alptransit.ch
seems works are progressing well.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 10:51 PM   #118
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On the websites of the three groups of companies that are building the tunnel there are frequent updates about works:

http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=118&L=1 then "Rapporto settimanale avanzamento Faido" (updated every Friday)

http://www.agn-amsteg.ch/

http://www.transco-sedrun.ch/

In the Faido section the eastern TBM is progfressing slowly after the diffucult Piora section. The western TBM is before Piora and is faster.
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Old December 6th, 2008, 08:44 PM   #119
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With that current pace of digging all tunnels could be bored until beginning of 2010. Is it possible?
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Old December 9th, 2008, 12:03 AM   #120
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With a small calculation based on the latest Communiqué posted by panda80 it should be possible to finish in 14 months if they continue with the same speed.

(153.3 - 120.5)/2.4 = 13,67 months

Then early 2010 should be possible, even late 2009 if you count from November 2008. But since they speed isn't always the same and since there can always be delays it's not easy to predict right now.
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