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Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:26 AM   #2041
hoosier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
There are two, perhaps three, big reasons why it is so hard to upgrade infrastructure:

3) Enviro-whackos whom feel that any and all infrastructure is a sign of the pure evil of humanity with its audacity to spoil the pristine planet and also often have the money and connections seen in #2.



Mike
That isn't true. Replacing aging freeways and replacing outdated, energy inefficient power plants with better ones won't be met with any environmental opposition. The problem with US road infrastructure isn't capacity, it is decaying pavement, bridges and interchanges, especially in urban areas- upgrading these roads won't generate environmental opposition at all.

But keep making shit up if you like.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:09 AM   #2042
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^ Here in Spain there are some light gray asphalts too (usually because it's old or it supports heavy traffic), but I've noticed (in photos) that your asphalt is lighter. I haven't seen any US photo with our typical black asphalt.
I've always thought our asphalt was lighter too, until I started to see some very European-looking highway pictures in the Mid-West. But of course, there's light traffic there. I really think the U.S. should adopt to a single, nation-wide highway standard. Okay, yes they kind of do, hence the Interestates, with regulations on lane width, median width and such. But I mean a single technique of pavement marking or a standard use of pavement material. Yes I know some states have varying weather and such, but we should adopt a system where there's a standard for cold weather, a standard for hot weather, etc.

The U.S. should also really increase the thickness of their highways, I'm feeling sinkholes everywhere. The Autobahn is about 27 inches in thickness, and US highways are about half that, with trucks that are often times heavier.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 02:35 PM   #2043
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Yes I like those type of markings. The center dashed lines could be longer though. I don't know if there's a specific purpose to the spacing of the lines, but longer lines and wider spacing gives a calmer look haha, although that would probably lead to increased speeding...I know Washington state has glass beads in their paint to reflect light. I'm not sure if that's the case on the picture you sent me.
The broken lane markings are actually somewhat longer in reality (about the same/slightly shorter than the standard US lane markings). I think the camera was zoomed a bit when the photo was taken creating the illusion of shorter markings. But the spacing between them is indeed longer

Last edited by KIWIKAAS; March 23rd, 2008 at 02:40 PM.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:21 PM   #2044
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Yes I like those type of markings. The center dashed lines could be longer though.
The photo was zoomed 4 times, in reality, the central lines are 3 m long with a 9m gap in between.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:07 PM   #2045
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@ HAWC1506

I think that each state probably does have their own pavement standards; but a uniform standard wouldn't work. Pavement is graded based on the type of temperature swing it must endure, and the amount of traffic it is expected to carry. In Ontario, there are specific zones across the province where a specific pavement blend must be used, based on these criteria.

In a lot of cases, where line markings have failed, they simply weren't installed correctly or during proper conditions.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:51 PM   #2046
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Someone from Los Angeles mailed me these pics, enjoy

91 freeway:
[IMG]http://i32.************/2uzwabq.jpg[/IMG]

105 freeway, from the 110 fwy interchange i guess:
[IMG]http://i30.************/5dqfzd.jpg[/IMG]

405 freeway, traffic jam.
[IMG]http://i31.************/2q9x8av.jpg[/IMG]

Not sure where, but i think the 210 freeway in Pasadena
[IMG]http://i29.************/242dg8j.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:33 PM   #2047
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Wow! there are many traffic jams there? :S:S
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:38 PM   #2048
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That last pic is in Pasadena. That's the Gold Line in the middle and the carpool lane that doesn't move. It seems to suffer from a lot of truck traffic, and it gets traffic from everywhere: Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, etc. The carpool lanes are a complete joke and offer no advantage to solo driving. Through Pasadena, it's one of the widest freeways in LA (if not the widest, it's just enormous). It's also the longest freeway in LA (although not continuous because it shifts alignment west of Pasadena to go to San Fernando). It's not on maps yet, but once the extension gets marked as interstate, it will run from San Fernando to Redlands.

Orik, yes, LA is notorious for bad traffic jams, especially the 405. From 3-7pm is not the time to drive in LA.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:41 PM   #2049
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I heard State Route 30 is already renamed into State Route 210, awaiting Interstate designation.

Quote:
Wow! there are many traffic jams there? :S:S
Ofcourse, there is no real alternative than driving, and the number of freeway lane miles is actually quite low, about the same level as New York, a city known for it's public transportation favor.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:16 PM   #2050
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LA only built less than 70% of their planned freeway network.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:44 PM   #2051
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Take a look for instance at the I-10 east of Los Angeles.

It stretches for about 60 miles between Los Angeles and San Bernardino. Over 2 million people live less than 3 miles from this freeway. (i have just calculated that), and Los Angeles isn't even taken into account. Let's say 900,000 of them has a job, and 90% of those use their car to get there. That are 810,000 one-way trips, or 1.62 million car trips, only for work along the I-10 corridor. You need more than 60 lanes to handle that kind of traffic. There is no way any freeway system can handle that properly, so people seek alternatives, trains, cycling, different routes, working at home, different commute times, etc. That's in a nutshell why the LA Freeway system is terribly jammed.

Other calculation:

There are 1.337.706 housing units in Los Angeles. A typical Dutch kind of suburban area generates about 6 car trips per household daily (official figures for traffic analysts). I guess this isn't that much different in Los Angeles. That are over 8 million car trips daily. Let's say 25% of those trips involve a freeway. That are 2 million car trips on a freeway daily. That kind of traffic requires 80 lanes. There is nowhere near that amount of lanes in Los Angeles (accumulated). That's why it's so terribly jammed.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:43 PM   #2052
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There is Metrolink as an alternative, but if you live in the San Gabriel Valley (west of El Monte and east of Cal State LA) then you pretty much have to take the freeway. There are no Metrolink stops there. Of course, you could always take the bus, but the San Gabriel Valley typically gets the worst of the worst when it comes to LA buses.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:46 PM   #2053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Take a look for instance at the I-10 east of Los Angeles.

It stretches for about 60 miles between Los Angeles and San Bernardino. Over 2 million people live less than 3 miles from this freeway. (i have just calculated that), and Los Angeles isn't even taken into account. Let's say 900,000 of them has a job, and 90% of those use their car to get there. That are 810,000 one-way trips, or 1.62 million car trips, only for work along the I-10 corridor. You need more than 60 lanes to handle that kind of traffic. There is no way any freeway system can handle that properly, so people seek alternatives, trains, cycling, different routes, working at home, different commute times, etc. That's in a nutshell why the LA Freeway system is terribly jammed.

Other calculation:

There are 1.337.706 housing units in Los Angeles. A typical Dutch kind of suburban area generates about 6 car trips per household daily (official figures for traffic analysts). I guess this isn't that much different in Los Angeles. That are over 8 million car trips daily. Let's say 25% of those trips involve a freeway. That are 2 million car trips on a freeway daily. That kind of traffic requires 80 lanes. There is nowhere near that amount of lanes in Los Angeles (accumulated). That's why it's so terribly jammed.
There's a lot more to it than that. I'm not enough up to speed to discuss this in great detail any more, but there are huge variations in car travel per capita between American cities. LA is often held up as a prototype of urban sprawl, but in terms of vehicle travel per capita it's a veritable model of sustainablity compared to Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, and some others.

A few years ago I served as a citizen member of a planning task force for our local MPO, and I remember a graph that showed the projected increase in per capita vehicle miles traveled for Atlanta and various peer cities (actually, the ones whose MPO's had bothered to present projected per capita car travel growth at the time). The good news was that Atlanta's was projected to stop increasing in the not-too-distant future. The bad news was that that was because non of the peer cities would reach Atlanta's current level of per capita car travel within the planning horizon.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:10 PM   #2054
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Take a look for instance at the I-10 east of Los Angeles.

It stretches for about 60 miles between Los Angeles and San Bernardino. Over 2 million people live less than 3 miles from this freeway. (i have just calculated that), and Los Angeles isn't even taken into account. Let's say 900,000 of them has a job, and 90% of those use their car to get there. That are 810,000 one-way trips, or 1.62 million car trips, only for work along the I-10 corridor. You need more than 60 lanes to handle that kind of traffic. There is no way any freeway system can handle that properly, so people seek alternatives, trains, cycling, different routes, working at home, different commute times, etc. That's in a nutshell why the LA Freeway system is terribly jammed.

Other calculation:

There are 1.337.706 housing units in Los Angeles. A typical Dutch kind of suburban area generates about 6 car trips per household daily (official figures for traffic analysts). I guess this isn't that much different in Los Angeles. That are over 8 million car trips daily. Let's say 25% of those trips involve a freeway. That are 2 million car trips on a freeway daily. That kind of traffic requires 80 lanes. There is nowhere near that amount of lanes in Los Angeles (accumulated). That's why it's so terribly jammed.
The freeway system in the LA basin handles aprox 50% of the regions traffic at any given time I believe.

I have used the HOV lanes alot in LA mainly on the 105,405,605 and 91.
The big hassle is when entering the freeway in peak periods and crossing 4 to 6 lanes to get into the HOV lane. Once youre in it you cruise along pretty nicely usually.

Last edited by KIWIKAAS; March 23rd, 2008 at 11:16 PM.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:18 PM   #2055
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Not even close to true on many freeways. I mean about the smooth sailing on the HOV lanes. During rush hour those things are as packed as any other lane. Of course, it depends on the freeway. Like I mentioned before, the lanes on the 210 are just as slow if not slower than the mixed-flow lanes. The HOV lanes on the 134 however are terrific.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:40 PM   #2056
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Uff, here in Spain traffic jams are usual when holidays are starting/ending and in the mornings (afternoon Fridays are also hard because the weekends) you can find heavy traffic in some roads at the afternoon when people go back to their homes.

I live in a village at 50 km of my University (it's near Madrid), and I usually find heavy traffic going there (about 45 mins) and some traffic jams of 2 or 3 kms. I can come back in 30 mins. Going in/out of my University's city usually takes 10-15 mins (because the university is on the center of the city). I remember a morning in which a (ONLY ONE) train station was closed because a suicide about 2 hours and it took me more than 1 hour and a half to arrive. I think you need more urgently a public transportation service!!

See u! :P
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Old March 24th, 2008, 03:40 AM   #2057
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Originally Posted by OriK View Post
Uff, here in Spain traffic jams are usual when holidays are starting/ending and in the mornings (afternoon Fridays are also hard because the weekends) you can find heavy traffic in some roads at the afternoon when people go back to their homes.

I live in a village at 50 km of my University (it's near Madrid), and I usually find heavy traffic going there (about 45 mins) and some traffic jams of 2 or 3 kms. I can come back in 30 mins. Going in/out of my University's city usually takes 10-15 mins (because the university is on the center of the city). I remember a morning in which a (ONLY ONE) train station was closed because a suicide about 2 hours and it took me more than 1 hour and a half to arrive. I think you need more urgently a public transportation service!!

See u! :P
Hm I don't believe I ever saw an High Occupancy Vehicle lane in Europe. Do they exist?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 05:44 AM   #2058
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Yes, they exists but they are different, they are called "Carriles VAO" (VAO = Vehículos de Alta Ocupación = High Occupancy Vehicles, Carriles = Lanes), inside those lanes, only cars with more than x persons can fo through them (the number of persons is indicated at the entrance), we also have "Carriles BUS-VAO" that also allows buses.

I know one BUS-VAO in the A-6 from Madrid to Las Rozas (Spain) there is a separate roadway in the middle of the motorway (with 2 lanes and links with tunnels). Only cars with 2 or more persons and buses can go through this roadway. This roadway can be used in both directions (but not at the same time, both lanes always have the same direction and their direction is choosen according to the traffic).

You can see that on google maps (the motorway have new asphalt on this photo excepting the BUS-VAO lanes that looks gray in the middle of the motorway)

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Old March 24th, 2008, 06:45 AM   #2059
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Yes, they exists but they are different, they are called "Carriles VAO" (VAO = Vehículos de Alta Ocupación = High Occupancy Vehicles, Carriles = Lanes), inside those lanes, only cars with more than x persons can fo through them (the number of persons is indicated at the entrance), we also have "Carriles BUS-VAO" that also allows buses.

I know one BUS-VAO in the A-6 from Madrid to Las Rozas (Spain) there is a separate roadway in the middle of the motorway (with 2 lanes and links with tunnels). Only cars with 2 or more persons and buses can go through this roadway. This roadway can be used in both directions (but not at the same time, both lanes always have the same direction and their direction is choosen according to the traffic).

You can see that on google maps (the motorway have new asphalt on this photo excepting the BUS-VAO lanes that looks gray in the middle of the motorway)

That sounds like the same exact system that we have in the states. We have HOV lanes that require 2+ people or 3+ people depending on the highway volume, and on some highways there's also a reversible HOV lane in between the two directions and the direction changes according to time.

Also, Washington DOT recently introduced the HOT lane. I know it has been used in some other states before. Basically, HOT lanes are HOVs with the added capability of allowing single-occupant vehicles to pay their way into the HOT lane. The fare adjusts according to traffic volume. However, there are designated entrances so vehicles can only enter/exit lanes at certain areas.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 01:13 PM   #2060
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Hm I don't believe I ever saw an High Occupancy Vehicle lane in Europe. Do they exist?
The Netherlands also used to have a carpool lane, at the A1 motorway between interchange Muiderberg and interchange Diemen (just east of Amsterdam). It didn't worked out, and they turned it into a reversible lane for peak hours. Personally, i don't think it would work very good in the Netherlands, because we are not one continuous urban area like Los Angeles or any large US metropolitan Area.

Californians seem to love it though, i have never seen a state that has used HOV lanes as much as California.
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