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Old June 18th, 2008, 04:18 AM   #2421
mgk920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
That satellite photo is old. That stretch of highway is 3+1 in Indiana from the state line to I-65.

Do you honestly think those auxiliary lanes just disappear at the state line?
Since its very recent rebuild (finished last fall), that highway is now 2x4 with an outside auxiliary lane in each direction eastward to just short of I-65 and the part from there to the Indiana Toll Road is now under reconstruction. I-65 is also *closed* for reconstruction from I-80/94 to the Toll Road (I-90).

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Old June 18th, 2008, 12:17 PM   #2422
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Do you honestly think those auxiliary lanes just disappear at the state line?
Of course i thought that

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You really are wrong when it comes to freeways. Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and LA have decentralized commercial and office districts and all have horrific traffic congestion. Do you realize how large a freeway network would be needed to service all of these office districts suitably? One that is cost and land prohibitive.You can't all of a sudden develop a whole new freeway network to serve new office parks that were built after the interstates were constructed.
Atlanta has horrible congestion because the density is too low, and there aren't any good alternatives to freeways. (lack of decent surface streets). However, I checked the traffic info a couple of times, and it didn't look too bad to me. Same counts for Houston, but this city is just simply too large for the number of inhabitants. Very inefficient land usage over there. The city could have been half the size almost if every now-unused corner would have been build.

About Dallas, I think the agglomeration is rather densely (for American standards, better than Houston), but the city didn't grow evenly. Almost all new urban developments took place along the north side, while the southern side almost didn't grow. This means an unevenly distributed traffic flow. Besides that, Dallas doesn't have that many wide freeways like Houston has.

Well, Los Angeles is pretty clear, as said in that article I posted a while ago, the current capacity is 1/3rd too short to handle the traffic demand. The agglomeration is just so huge, and still growing like hell.

The major problem in US cities with congestion is first geography, (lakes, major rivers, mountain ranges, coastlines (Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, New York). That's why cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or San Antonio only suffer from light to zero congestion.

To encounter the PT vs roadway problem. The Netherlands invest 10 times as much in Public Transportation as in roadways (relative), but traffic is much worse than most US metropolitan area's. The average Dutch rushhour totals 200 - 250 miles of traffic jam, more than in New York, which has 6 million people more in the agglomeration. There is just no way public transportation can even relief traffic jams in the current mostly low-density setup. Like I said, that's why it works in Manhattan, but not in Houston or Atlanta.

If you want to solve traffic jams with public transportation, you'll need such a large network, which is much more unaffordable than building some freeways, talking about cost-prohibitive.

Besides that, the Freeway system was mostly build in the 1960's. The U.S. had 180,000,000 inhabitants back then. Right now, there are over 300,000,000 inhabitants, but the freeways didn't grow as much as the population did, resulting in major traffic congestion in some area's. Add that to the fact that most metropolitan areas are huge, and give no other option than drive. That's how the cards are dealt, and that's also not gonna change that much.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; June 18th, 2008 at 12:22 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #2423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Of course i thought that



Atlanta has horrible congestion because the density is too low, and there aren't any good alternatives to freeways. (lack of decent surface streets). However, I checked the traffic info a couple of times, and it didn't look too bad to me. Same counts for Houston, but this city is just simply too large for the number of inhabitants. Very inefficient land usage over there. The city could have been half the size almost if every now-unused corner would have been build.

About Dallas, I think the agglomeration is rather densely (for American standards, better than Houston), but the city didn't grow evenly. Almost all new urban developments took place along the north side, while the southern side almost didn't grow. This means an unevenly distributed traffic flow. Besides that, Dallas doesn't have that many wide freeways like Houston has.

Well, Los Angeles is pretty clear, as said in that article I posted a while ago, the current capacity is 1/3rd too short to handle the traffic demand. The agglomeration is just so huge, and still growing like hell.

The major problem in US cities with congestion is first geography, (lakes, major rivers, mountain ranges, coastlines (Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, New York). That's why cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or San Antonio only suffer from light to zero congestion.

To encounter the PT vs roadway problem. The Netherlands invest 10 times as much in Public Transportation as in roadways (relative), but traffic is much worse than most US metropolitan area's. The average Dutch rushhour totals 200 - 250 miles of traffic jam, more than in New York, which has 6 million people more in the agglomeration. There is just no way public transportation can even relief traffic jams in the current mostly low-density setup. Like I said, that's why it works in Manhattan, but not in Houston or Atlanta.

If you want to solve traffic jams with public transportation, you'll need such a large network, which is much more unaffordable than building some freeways, talking about cost-prohibitive.

Besides that, the Freeway system was mostly build in the 1960's. The U.S. had 180,000,000 inhabitants back then. Right now, there are over 300,000,000 inhabitants, but the freeways didn't grow as much as the population did, resulting in major traffic congestion in some area's. Add that to the fact that most metropolitan areas are huge, and give no other option than drive. That's how the cards are dealt, and that's also not gonna change that much.
Do you guys consider the Racial component that I outlined a couple pages back? Seems like something that you guys would want to factor into the way we in the USA built our Interstates and Freeways.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #2424
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Yeah wasn't that the case with Atlanta? Like they used to like to destroy poorer (black) neighborhoods? That's some sad history if it is true.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 09:31 AM   #2425
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Yeah wasn't that the case with Atlanta? Like they used to like to destroy poorer (black) neighborhoods? That's some sad history if it is true.
They did the same in New Orleans, Houston, and LA. Almost did the same thing in Baltimore and Memphis(not that it made a difference, they still went pretty ghetto). Hell look at Detroit and Miami, Newark and indeed Atlanta.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 11:54 PM   #2426
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Currently 200 miles of traffic jam in greater New York. 57 traffic jams, a majority of them are less than 3 miles long. Only a few traffic jams have a delay that's greater than 20 minutes.

Hot Spots:
* Outbound tunnels
* GW Bridge and I-95
* FDR/Harlem Riv. Drive
* BQE
* Belt Parkway
* I-495 eastbound
* I-95 in Connecticut

Only minor delays in New Jersey. Far majority of the T-jams are in New York state.

To be frank, it doesn't look THAT bad. However, New York is ranked as the second worse traffic situation in the United States (after Los Angeles). Later I will check out LA (it's not rushhour there yet).
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Old June 21st, 2008, 12:48 AM   #2427
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120 miles of traffic jam in Chicago. 38 traffic jams, over half of them are less than 2 miles, and minor delays at toll plaza's. However there are some major delays.

Hotspots:
* I-90/I-94 Chicago north/westbound both directions
* I-90/I-94 Chicago southbound
* I-290 westbound
* I-55 southbound

Most of these queues have a delay of 20 - 40 minutes. Driving times between downtown and Highland Park is about an hour (35 miles).
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Old June 21st, 2008, 01:01 AM   #2428
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Atlanta has only 20 miles of traffic jam. That's nothing, I though traffic was so bad over there? There are currently 8 traffic jams, all but 2 have a delay less than 10 minutes.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 01:06 AM   #2429
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Houston has 50 miles of traffic jam in 19 traffic jams. Only 2 of them exceed 6 miles in length. That also doesn't seem that much to me. I saw in this NBC report Friday afternoons had the worst traffic. Well, not in Houston I guess.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 01:14 AM   #2430
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40 miles in Dallas-Fort Worth. Is this day not representative for a overall look? These cities are in the top 10 of worst traffic congestion in the U.S.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 05:10 AM   #2431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Atlanta has only 20 miles of traffic jam. That's nothing, I though traffic was so bad over there? There are currently 8 traffic jams, all but 2 have a delay less than 10 minutes.
NFW. Traffic is a lot worse than that here.

But congestion has decreased quite a bit since gas prices started rising. Happened after Katrina, too.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 11:18 AM   #2432
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What are the absolute peak hours during the day? In the Netherlands it's around 8.30 am and 17.30 pm. How's that in the US? Some area's (like Los Angeles) are seeing heavy traffic almost all day, however most metropolitan area's seems pretty clear outside rushhours.

And what do you guys call a traffic jam? I got the feeling everything below 50mph is seen as congestion. I was watching the actual traffic speeds in Los Angeles from sigalert.com, but very few locations had traffic speeds less than 15 mph.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 12:19 PM   #2433
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Circle Interchange in Chicago from the Sears Tower. This one of the most important interchanges in Chicagoland, I-90/I-94 and I-290 meet here.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 03:34 PM   #2434
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Some NYC area stuff from MSN...


Henry Hudson Parkway on the west side of Manhattan...
image hosted on flickr



Henry Hudson a bit to the north...
image hosted on flickr


Junction with Interstate 95 and the George Washington Bridge heading over to New Jersey...
image hosted on flickr


Henry Hudson crosses US Route 9 north of NYC...
image hosted on flickr


Henry Hudson junction: Mosholu Parkway...
image hosted on flickr


Saw Mill Parkway just to the left of Interstate 87, north of NYC...
image hosted on flickr


Saw Mill junction: Cross County Pkwy...
image hosted on flickr


Interstate 95 at the New York-Connecticut state line northeast of NYC...
image hosted on flickr


Interstate 95 in Cos Cob, Connecticut
image hosted on flickr
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Old June 21st, 2008, 04:42 PM   #2435
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I finally found a video of the I-95 in Manhattan. This section is like a mile long, but congested, the expressway has 12 lanes, dives under a few high apartment buildings, and is generally very aged, and not designed for today's traffic volumes (250,000). However, the capacity is higher than the volumes, but the design holds back the capacity greatly.

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Old June 22nd, 2008, 08:30 AM   #2436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Of course i thought that



Atlanta has horrible congestion because the density is too low, and there aren't any good alternatives to freeways. (lack of decent surface streets). However, I checked the traffic info a couple of times, and it didn't look too bad to me. Same counts for Houston, but this city is just simply too large for the number of inhabitants. Very inefficient land usage over there. The city could have been half the size almost if every now-unused corner would have been build.

About Dallas, I think the agglomeration is rather densely (for American standards, better than Houston), but the city didn't grow evenly. Almost all new urban developments took place along the north side, while the southern side almost didn't grow. This means an unevenly distributed traffic flow. Besides that, Dallas doesn't have that many wide freeways like Houston has.

Well, Los Angeles is pretty clear, as said in that article I posted a while ago, the current capacity is 1/3rd too short to handle the traffic demand. The agglomeration is just so huge, and still growing like hell.

The major problem in US cities with congestion is first geography, (lakes, major rivers, mountain ranges, coastlines (Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, New York). That's why cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or San Antonio only suffer from light to zero congestion.

To encounter the PT vs roadway problem. The Netherlands invest 10 times as much in Public Transportation as in roadways (relative), but traffic is much worse than most US metropolitan area's. The average Dutch rushhour totals 200 - 250 miles of traffic jam, more than in New York, which has 6 million people more in the agglomeration. There is just no way public transportation can even relief traffic jams in the current mostly low-density setup. Like I said, that's why it works in Manhattan, but not in Houston or Atlanta.

If you want to solve traffic jams with public transportation, you'll need such a large network, which is much more unaffordable than building some freeways, talking about cost-prohibitive.

Besides that, the Freeway system was mostly build in the 1960's. The U.S. had 180,000,000 inhabitants back then. Right now, there are over 300,000,000 inhabitants, but the freeways didn't grow as much as the population did, resulting in major traffic congestion in some area's. Add that to the fact that most metropolitan areas are huge, and give no other option than drive. That's how the cards are dealt, and that's also not gonna change that much.
Atlanta's low density is in part caused by its sprawling freeway system and the fact that the state and suburbs have refused to expand the reach of MARTA. The American freeway system has undergone extensive reconstruction since it was first built, and traffic persists.

The solution is to spend much more fixing and expanding existing roads (not building new ones) as well as expanding existing and building new mass transit/rail systems.

The fact that so much of America's commuter and intercity rail systems share track with freight cars severely reduces speed and causes huge delays.

Indianapolis does have congestion problems- I should know since I lived there in 2007. But due to its relatively small metro area (along with the other cities you mentioned) traffic isn't too bad. Those cities all have good freeway systems but so do LA and New York (although NY's is very old and needs to be repaired).
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 11:31 AM   #2437
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The fact that so much of America's commuter and intercity rail systems share track with freight cars severely reduces speed and causes huge delays.
Rail freight is interesting. I don't think we use that as much in Europe as they do in the United States. Well, most of the European destinations are within a 3 day reach for truckers, although I heard American truckers drive like 800 miles on a day. That's impossible in Europe due to driving times restrictions, you can drive about 450 miles with a truck on one day on this continent.
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 05:21 PM   #2438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I finally found a video of the I-95 in Manhattan. This section is like a mile long, but congested, the expressway has 12 lanes, dives under a few high apartment buildings, and is generally very aged, and not designed for today's traffic volumes (250,000). However, the capacity is higher than the volumes, but the design holds back the capacity greatly.

Good stuff I'm not 100% sure on the choice of music though.

Heres a quote from another forum with some more pics ->

I70 stretch (hope at least some of these aren't red-x's):


Aspen/Vail area:






1.6mile long Eisenhower Tunnel:




That part of I-70 looks siiick with the tunnel.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:00 AM   #2439
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Does anyone know if New York roads are better maintained than California/Texas? I saw the pictures in the previous post and there are some pretty European-looking roads (as in not taking up too much room, decent markings, some well-maintained pavement, etc.)
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 02:21 AM   #2440
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Do you guys consider the Racial component that I outlined a couple pages back? Seems like something that you guys would want to factor into the way we in the USA built our Interstates and Freeways.
It certainly was a factor in Detroit when the Chrysler freeway (I 75 and 375)was routed down Hastings St., which was the commercial center of the black community at the time.

Where 75 turns sharply SW and becomes the Fisher Fwy it replaced Vernor, which was an east/west surface street, with a large concrete trench that split the area north of Grand Circus Park in two. It effectively cut off most of the Cass Corridor including the large Masonic Temple theatre and several hotels and businesses from the rest of downtown.
Farther west the same highway cut off Corktown from the increasingly black areas north of Tiger Stadium.
This was at least one of the contributing factors to the decline of neighborhoods on both sides.

Just a little personal take on the Interstate thing. If my destination is within Detroit or even close in like Ferndale or Royal Oak I will use Woodward Ave. And I'd swear going to Dearborn via Michigan Ave is not much more than a ten minute drive plus a far more direct route than jinking to I 94 or down 75 to Schaefer.
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