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Old August 8th, 2008, 11:50 PM   #2701
Substructure
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HAWC1506, the stock Peugeot 308 does 75MPG-US / 90MPG-UK. And it's not that small.

Some pictures of the beast :
http://www.netcarshow.com/peugeot/2008-308/

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Peugeot-3...llpaper_0c.jpg

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Peugeot-3...llpaper_22.jpg


edit : There's also a coupé, with the same fuel economy : http://www.netcarshow.com/peugeot/2009-308_cc/
I wonder how good this would sell in the US...


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Old August 9th, 2008, 01:12 AM   #2702
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
That's the Lupo 3 L (3 liters per 100km), which gets 70 miles per gallon. However, those are cookie cans without any options. You'll get a much larger diesel car that gets 45 miles per gallon, which is a nice fuel economy. Better than those US 15 - 25 mpg cars.

What is the current speed limit for trucks? In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph. Higher is unsafe in my opinion, they are vulnerable to bad pavement, winds and other traffic makes the possibility to jackknife or turn-over much bigger.

I believe a 70 - 80 mph speed limit is just fine for rural highways. 60/65 feels like crowling. SUV sales should be disencouraged by higher taxes, possibly based on pollution (this is measurable). A chevy Tahoe pollutes nearly 400 grammes CO2 per kilometer, which is just nuts.
Yeah that is nuts, but there are worse.

Chevy Tahoe petrol: 14 city/20 highway
Toyota Sequoia petrol: 14 city/17 highway
Audi Q7 petrol: 14 city/19 highway

As far as I know, speed limits for trucks are generally 10 miles under the posted speed. Sometimes on rural sections, you can see "Speed Limit 70" and below that "Truck Speed Limit 60." On rural stretches of U.S. highways though, there can be miles without any traffic. With two lanes and a very straight road, I don't think I will have a problem with trucks doing 65. Cars generally do 75 on those stretches and even that feels like crawling.

The argument though is that there are a lot of working-class people who need SUVs, but I don't see how difficult it is to implement an ordnance where people can be relieved of gas-guzzler taxes if they meet working-class requirements.

Then you have performance oriented SUVs like the Audi Q7 or Mercedes M-class. Those get worse mileage than Tahoes. However, I've heard that in Europe, those SUVs are generally sold as diesels. (Is that true?). If so, those get mileages in the mid to high 20s compared to the 15 miles to a gallon in a petrol engine.

It's going to take a long time to change American habits. Why don't we go back to being a British colony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Substructure View Post
HAWC1506, the stock Peugeot 308 does 75MPG-US / 90MPG-UK. And it's not that small.
I am so disappointed Peugeot isn't sold in the U.S....Americans need to get off the hybrid train. Hybrids may work for Japan where limits are sometimes as low as 80 km/h, but certainly not in the U.S., let alone Europe. It's great to know that the 308 exists! I'll try to do some research and post an article on my blog.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 07:12 AM   #2703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
That's the Lupo 3 L (3 liters per 100km), which gets 70 miles per gallon. However, those are cookie cans without any options. You'll get a much larger diesel car that gets 45 miles per gallon, which is a nice fuel economy. Better than those US 15 - 25 mpg cars.

What is the current speed limit for trucks? In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph. Higher is unsafe in my opinion, they are vulnerable to bad pavement, winds and other traffic makes the possibility to jackknife or turn-over much bigger.

I believe a 70 - 80 mph speed limit is just fine for rural highways. 60/65 feels like crowling. SUV sales should be disencouraged by higher taxes, possibly based on pollution (this is measurable). A chevy Tahoe pollutes nearly 400 grammes CO2 per kilometer, which is just nuts.
For not being an American, you have great insight into our highway system. For Rural Interstate highways, the speed limit is mostly 65, with the exception of some states and spans. Our speed limit does need to be raised. In Urban areas, the speed limit for interstates is 55... very slow. To answer your first question, there is no speed limit for trucks in America... they flow along with commuters and interstate travelers going about their daily business. However, some roads say "thru trucks prohibited," meaning trucks cannot use that road. Or it tells trucks to keep right. But I usually travel at around 70-75 on the interstate... I would like to go 80-85, but laws do not allow for this. I think it would be a splendid idea for the US to tax based on emissions... and give tax rebates to those who drive more fuel-efficient cars (it is already doing this to a lesser degree). Gas taxes should also increase. The Tahoe, Yukon, Excursion, and Suburban indeed do not get very good mileage... and minivans are a much more efficient alternative to large SUV's... but the American image of a middle-age man driving a minivan is not so good.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 09:34 AM   #2704
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Originally Posted by Virginia Lover View Post
For not being an American, you have great insight into our highway system. For Rural Interstate highways, the speed limit is mostly 65, with the exception of some states and spans. Our speed limit does need to be raised. In Urban areas, the speed limit for interstates is 55... very slow. To answer your first question, there is no speed limit for trucks in America... they flow along with commuters and interstate travelers going about their daily business. However, some roads say "thru trucks prohibited," meaning trucks cannot use that road. Or it tells trucks to keep right. But I usually travel at around 70-75 on the interstate... I would like to go 80-85, but laws do not allow for this. I think it would be a splendid idea for the US to tax based on emissions... and give tax rebates to those who drive more fuel-efficient cars (it is already doing this to a lesser degree). Gas taxes should also increase. The Tahoe, Yukon, Excursion, and Suburban indeed do not get very good mileage... and minivans are a much more efficient alternative to large SUV's... but the American image of a middle-age man driving a minivan is not so good.
It might be that way in virginia, but every state has different laws I guess.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 09:46 AM   #2705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virginia Lover View Post
For not being an American, you have great insight into our highway system. For Rural Interstate highways, the speed limit is mostly 65, with the exception of some states and spans. Our speed limit does need to be raised. In Urban areas, the speed limit for interstates is 55... very slow. To answer your first question, there is no speed limit for trucks in America... they flow along with commuters and interstate travelers going about their daily business. However, some roads say "thru trucks prohibited," meaning trucks cannot use that road. Or it tells trucks to keep right. But I usually travel at around 70-75 on the interstate... I would like to go 80-85, but laws do not allow for this. I think it would be a splendid idea for the US to tax based on emissions... and give tax rebates to those who drive more fuel-efficient cars (it is already doing this to a lesser degree). Gas taxes should also increase. The Tahoe, Yukon, Excursion, and Suburban indeed do not get very good mileage... and minivans are a much more efficient alternative to large SUV's... but the American image of a middle-age man driving a minivan is not so good.
To be honest, i dont think the speed limit really needs to be changed up from 55 in an urban area. When you think about it, how often do you even get to go way over 55 on I66- maybe more likely on the beltway. As bad as Virginias traffic seems to be whats the point of going so fast? Its 55 for a reason, a lot of it is a safety issue. If it was I81 then thats obviously a different story as theres less traffic. I dunno just my 2 cents.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 12:15 PM   #2706
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55 is okay in Urban area's I guess, but I've seen many video's in the US of driving through cities where you don't see a single home from the freeway. However, 55 is a bit slow, in Europe, most urban area's have a speed limit of 60 mph. Only if the road is very curvy or if there are many exits the speed limit should be slower.

But it also has to do with noise pollutions, the lower the speed limit, the lower the emissions of noise. This is especially an issue where there's still that old concrete, or the freeway is surrounded by concrete walls (=reflections of noise).
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Old August 9th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #2707
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Old August 9th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #2708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle
In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph.
In the UK it's 60mph, and to be honest there is -safetywise- nothing wrong with that on usual motorways. I got over 60 mph in holland too (at steep tunnel slopes).

I wonder if american trucks are even confined. Eg, in the Netherlands they have to be confined to somewhere between 80 - 90 km/h (depending on weight).
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Old August 9th, 2008, 10:20 PM   #2709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
55 is okay in Urban area's I guess, but I've seen many video's in the US of driving through cities where you don't see a single home from the freeway. However, 55 is a bit slow, in Europe, most urban area's have a speed limit of 60 mph. Only if the road is very curvy or if there are many exits the speed limit should be slower.

But it also has to do with noise pollutions, the lower the speed limit, the lower the emissions of noise. This is especially an issue where there's still that old concrete, or the freeway is surrounded by concrete walls (=reflections of noise).
That is right on the spot(!) for most cities. In the city I see though (Seattle), the speed limit is 60 on I-5, and that highway receives a lot of traffic AND has exits on both the left and right. The highway also runs under a convention center (yes below a building, not a tunnel, but like a hole through the building, which is odd). The concrete surface is about 40 years old and rutted so the noise pollution is oh so great That entire stretch of I-5 is going to be reconstructed in a few years.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 10:41 PM   #2710
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Hopefully soon, that area is a huge chokepoint when the express lanes are turned around. Say HAWC, do you think it would be effective for the express lanes to become express toll lanes and perhaps add a lane from north to south on the mainline?
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Old August 10th, 2008, 04:49 AM   #2711
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Some states do have speed limits in Michigan trucks are limited to 60 compared to 70 for cars. But it's not strictly enforced, pretty much like most of the speed laws in this state.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 07:57 AM   #2712
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Hopefully soon, that area is a huge chokepoint when the express lanes are turned around. Say HAWC, do you think it would be effective for the express lanes to become express toll lanes and perhaps add a lane from north to south on the mainline?
That corridor is near impossible to expand. The terrain requires that a lot of the highway be built on bridges, and at the part where the freeway runs under the convention center, that's a definite nono for expansion. I believe lanes are already narrow enough at 12-feet wide and I don't think there's a shoulder under there either.

What I believe would be much better is that if they convert the right shoulder (when there is one) so that it can be used for transit and maybe even carpool during rush hours. I think WSDOT is thinking about doing that with new technology called Active Traffic Management (which is nothing new to the Europeans and hasn't been for the past decade or so). That technology though, is still at least five years away.

As for the reversible lanes, I'm not a traffic engineer so I don't know anything about traffic patterns, but from my experience, a big cause of congestion is when people come onto the freeway and have to merge 4 lanes of traffic to get into the HOV. If you convert the reversible lanes into express toll lanes, there's going to be even more people cutting across traffic to get in there. The problem with that corridor is that there's no room. There's very little space to add lanes and very little space to add direct acces HOV ramps. If there were direct access HOV ramps like on I-405 or I-90, I'd say that would probably be a great idea, but not in I-5.

Just my thoughts, but I'm not a professional, so don't quote me on anything haha Do you travel around there much?

The three highways I think that have the most "upgrade potentials" are I-90, I-405, and SR520. I am especially fond of SR520 because being a state route, it doesn't have to deal with federal interstate restrictions so that highway can be built more European-like, as in more compact without the need for humongous medians and shoulders. My wish is for WSDOT to introduce a new generation of highway by rebuilding SR520 to European standards and labeling it A1. I don't think that will happen anytime soon though...

Last edited by HAWC1506; August 10th, 2008 at 08:09 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 08:01 AM   #2713
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Okay i've got 347 highway pictures I took on a trip to central Washington. Anyone want to see?

If yes, should I upload them all on here?

If no, should I upload them all on here?

My camera ran out of batteries (and memory...I should get more than 128 mb...) halfway down I-90 so the majority of the pictures were taken from my cellphone.

Last edited by HAWC1506; August 10th, 2008 at 10:08 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 08:16 AM   #2714
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A few companies are bringing diesel models here. I think that Volkswagen and maybe some others (can't remember). Using diesel as a fuel-efficient way is somewhat hard since diesel is hovering $5 here. However, I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for it, since diesel cars have the same efficiency as hybrids. The public is oblivious to that.

As for $7 gas, that will be a tough sell. Best case scenario, the US and state governments gradually raise the tax and sell the reasons to the public WHY they are doing this. I think if examples like the Minneapolis bridge disaster are brought up and more education about the slow death of our infrastructure, Americans will have to eventually have to deal with the tough medicine. We really have no other alternative.

Forget making the US more fuel-efficient for a second...we need to increase more money for our highways, bridges and roads or we will be seeing more Minneapolis bridge disasters...I heard a large % of bridges nationwide aren't good. We need to fix them with more revenue.
$7/gallon gas would kill the economy, if things are bad enough at $4 its a loss $3 higher. Fact is in the US its spread out in most places, I need a car for everything basically, my suburb is somewhat dense too. For one I love how you bring up infrastructure, because one thing that really kills fuel economy is stop and go traffic from poorly timed lights. My car gets 17-19mpg in those conditions, but if I'm constantly moving it can get up to 32mpg at 47mph on flat surface. Either way my average mpg is lower because of poorly timed lights and poor planning, traffic, etc. We need more efficient infrastructure, fact is you get very bad mpg idling at traffic lights.

Whats sad is our mpg hasn't improved really since WWII, I can find a 1980's Honda Shitter(Civic) that gets better mpg's than the current model. Car companies need to step up and stop being cheap, that would improve mpg's big time, for example if my transmission was a 5 or 6 speed my mpg's would be atleast 2+mpg better. Another thing is that for the longest time car companies didn't make nice fuel efficient cars, they were crap for the most part or cheapo.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 08:37 AM   #2715
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Quote:
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$7/gallon gas would kill the economy, if things are bad enough at $4 its a loss $3 higher.
Well high gas prices also came at a bad time. We've got the mortgage problem and credit crunch at the same time. People adapted to gas prices when it went up from $1.40 to $3.00. It just can't happen all at once.

Although, I do think I'll be able to take "credit crunch" much more seriously if it didn't sound like a breakfast cereal...
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Old August 10th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #2716
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Okay, here are some previews:

I-90




I-90 and I-405 intechange


I-405




This is what carpool lanes are for:


Carpool lanes aren't supposed to clog up though...




I-405 PCC pavement damaged by studded tire use.


I-405 Project






Seattle-Tacoma International Airport












I-90




Direct access HOV ramp decorated with salmon.


I-90
















The nicest stretch of I-90 I've been on.








Offramp


Going into the rural sections of I-90


My favorite sign in the U.S.






I-90 guardrail


Traveling I-90 Eastbound looking at the Westbound bridge


I-90 signs


I-90 Variable Speed Limit


I-90 Cracks










I-90 Past the Cascade Mountain Range









I-90 and I-82 Interchange





I-82





















Very nice I-82 Pavement


















All mighty god has shed a load of poo on our desert.














Coming back on I-90 again

More cracks










Here is the mother of all cracks. Same one for the next couple pictures.






Snow shelter


Variable Speed Limit again


And another one a couple hundred feet down


And yet another one a few more feet down


Here's continuing on westbound.


And back into more populated areas. Again, here's my favorite stretch of I-90. Police on the right.


Yes that sign on the left of the roadway says "Keep Right Except to Pass"










And just for fun, gas prices are going down...which is not a very good thing.


There ya go. I've selected a few for ya. Notice that people keep right except to pass in the rural areas? :] Makes me want to live on a farm in Eastern Washington. I actually saw a humongous sign probably 6 feet tall by 8 feet wide that said in capital letters "STATE LAW KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS." Looks something like this:



Sorry about the quality on most of them. My camera ran out of battery and memory, so I had to use my cell phone. Then there was bad weather for a lot of the time. But hey, at least I timed it so the windshield wiper wouldn't get in the way :P

Last edited by HAWC1506; August 10th, 2008 at 11:08 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #2717
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Quote:
Carpool lanes aren't supposed to clog up though...
Well, what I've seen from the Californian Sigalert site on the speed displays is that HOV-lanes are regularly even slower than the regular lanes.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 05:44 PM   #2718
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Quote:
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Well high gas prices also came at a bad time. We've got the mortgage problem and credit crunch at the same time. People adapted to gas prices when it went up from $1.40 to $3.00. It just can't happen all at once.

Although, I do think I'll be able to take "credit crunch" much more seriously if it didn't sound like a breakfast cereal...
The thing is people didn't adapt because gas never stayed at $3.00 very long back then. I think $2-$2.50/gallon is a fair gas price, we unfortunately won't see that again. Gas prices will fall again until next summer when it will pass $5/gallon. The oil companies are loving it, even better is when idiot americans will favor offshore drilling in which we will see little to no decrease in gas prices, but oil companies will have easier ways to obtain oil!
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Old August 10th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #2719
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We even had higher gas prices than that 15 years ago:
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Old August 10th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #2720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
The thing is people didn't adapt because gas never stayed at $3.00 very long back then. I think $2-$2.50/gallon is a fair gas price, we unfortunately won't see that again. Gas prices will fall again until next summer when it will pass $5/gallon. The oil companies are loving it, even better is when idiot americans will favor offshore drilling in which we will see little to no decrease in gas prices, but oil companies will have easier ways to obtain oil!
People could have adapted, but pressure from oil companies and car manufacturers has been tremendous. There is a lot of money to be made selling unefficient vehicles and technology.
Still, at least you guys had some good will with the EV1. A car that would have worked with some clean, affordable energy, 10 years ago
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdUfAEIEos
Had this been pushed a little more (better batteries, range extender, public charging stations..) imagine where the technology would be now.

In the US, I've noticed that cars can be incredibly unefficient, with some cars hardly doing better than 15MPG. Even now, this could bring tears to my eyes : http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/09/2009-c...ale-for-71685/

"This vehicle will get a remarkable 20 mpg hwy/21 mpg city using the 2-mode hybrid drivetrain."

In Europe, we pushed diesel cars instead, but I would rather favor electric technologies.
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