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Old October 5th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #3001
ChrisZwolle
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Well, Angelinos usually live in detached homes, even the lower-income class, while in Paris and suburbs, you mostly see apartments and massive amounts of social housing flats. Those are virtually non-existent in LA.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 02:26 PM   #3002
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Actually this counts for most US suburbs that I've seen.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #3003
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Yeah, the most well known social housing projects are mostly in New York City.

Contrary to popular belief, Los Angels and it's suburbs are among the most densely populated areas in the United States. Most suburban areas are much more dense than any Midwestern or Eastern US suburbs.

Minneapolis suburb:
[IMG]http://i37.************/2qc2gky.jpg[/IMG]

Los Angeles suburb from the same altitude:
[IMG]http://i38.************/14ihq4n.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 5th, 2008, 04:09 PM   #3004
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Houston is probably the least densely populated suburbian area in the US
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Old October 5th, 2008, 04:24 PM   #3005
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Nah Houston is per neighborhood not that bad, the actually buildup area is quite dense, but there's often a lot of wasted unused space in between them, making it quite inefficient land usage. Houston has an extremely large metro for it's population.

If you want to see low density suburbs, you should check east and north of Philadelphia, the westernmost suburbs of New York in New Jersey and around Connecticut.

South of King of Prussia, PA, same altitude as the above 2 pics!
[IMG]http://i38.************/3500aio.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 5th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #3006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I like the idea, it saves a lot of parking spaces in downtown. It's a nice space usage. It should look nicer than this though.

There are actually three of them on the I-394 near downtown Minneapolis.

They look like this from above:
[IMG]http://i34.************/fo3eo7.jpg[/IMG]
The Minnesota Twins' (American League baseball) new stadium (Target Field) is being built where that large surface parking lot is in that image.

It will be an open air baseball-only stadium and is scheduled to be ready for the 2009 season. (How many early and late season games will have to be moved to Miller Park in Milwaukee each year....)

Isn't there a major bus-transit center in one of those parking ramps, too?

Mike
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Old October 5th, 2008, 10:35 PM   #3007
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A plan for the Mixmaster
City officials to review, pick DOT design


BY ANDREW LARSON
REPUBLICAN-AMERICAN
WATERBURY — City officials expect to approve a redesign for the Mixmaster this week, as the Department of Transportation prepares to start work on the project, slated for completion almost a half century down the road.
“They’re looking for an answer sooner rather than later,” Alderman Paul Pernerewski Jr. said.
The massive $1.3 billion construction project would alter the geometry of the Route 8 and Interstate 84 interchange, notorious for its cumbersome leftlane entrance and exit ramps.
The reconfiguration would improve safety and bring the interchange in line with national standards, the DOT says.
The mayor’s economic development task force will meet Wednesday at 6 p.m. to vote on which of the DOT’s designs to endorse. The DOT wants input from the city by Friday.
Mayor Michael J. Jarjura will decide whether to forward the task force’s decision directly to the DOT or seek additional input from the Board of Aldermen.
The DOT has presented two viable designs to the task force. One leaves Route 8 on the west side of the Naugatuck River and expands the footprint of the interchange. Instead of Route 8 being stacked on top of Interstate 84, they would intersect on an even plane.
The second option moves Route 8 to the east side of the Naugatuck River, opening up a plot of land the road now occupies for future development.
At this point, the task force seems to favor option two, said Pernerewski, citing development potential on the west side of the river.
Although discussions about the reconfiguration have been taking place for years, some residents feel they haven’t had ample opportunity to provide input.
“The mayor hasn’t asked me to weigh in,” said Larry Depillo, an environmental activist, suggesting the idea of a public forum.
Calling the two proposed plans “ridiculous,” he is concerned about taking properties by eminent domain to the detriment of local business.
“The fact is that the highway, for all practical purposes, can probably be rebuilt and reconfigured in its exact location without having to take additional property,” Depillo said.
The Mixmaster redesign also features improvements to local roads so it will be possible to travel from one side of the city to the other without taking Interstate 84. Work on local roads could begin as early as 2012, far before highway construction begins.
Depillo is concerned that widening local roads will entice drivers to speed through the center of Waterbury, posing a safety hazard. He said he’d rather have traffic on the highway.
The DOT’s proposals do incur costs to the city. The first option would result in $643,331 in lost property tax revenue; the second option $586,513, said Stan McMillen, managing economist for the project.
In both scenarios, more than two dozen city properties would be claimed either in part or in whole.
The first option would minimally disrupt Connecticut Light & Power on Freight Street, take all of Yankee Gas Service Co. on Jackson Street and take 35 percent of Jarjura’s Market on South Main Street. The second option would take 76 percent of Connecticut Light and Power, 70 percent of Yankee Gas Service and 43 percent of Jarjura’s Market.
But the DOT is quick to point out that both options create potential for new development, eventually resulting in gains between $3.6 million and $32.9 million in yearly taxes.
The design the task force seems to favor, option two, is also less costly to the DOT because the current Route 8 would remain intact until the new road is finished, eliminating the need for a temporary access road.
For that reason, Pernerewski said the task force may try to negotiate some benefits to the city.
The city would like to claim the land west of the Naugatuck River sooner than the DOT has proposed, he said, to begin clean up of the site, which might be contaminated.
“The quicker we can get some of that land back under city control ... the sooner development could begin,” Pernerewski said.

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Old October 6th, 2008, 10:09 PM   #3008
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One has to love the beautiful air quality that massive freeway construction brought to L.A.

And even with its relative density compared to other U.S. cities, L.A. wastes so much land compared to Paris.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 10:20 PM   #3009
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Quote:
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One has to love the beautiful air quality that massive freeway construction brought to L.A.
It was about time someone brought this myth up.

While I don't want to say LA's automobile way of life has nothing to do with air quality, but the problem is really not only the automobile.

First of all, Particulate and Sulphur Dioxide levels in Los Angeles are not higher than say, Amsterdam, a city you normally don't associate with smog. It's blue skies there nearly all the time. Check out this list.

Los Angeles is a very large city, and has way more major pollution sources than the automobile alone. LA is a major port city and a trucking center. There are numerous diesel trains and refineries, not to even mention the number of airports.

The amount of smog has decrease enormous since the 1970's, yet the city has grown much bigger since, with a huge increase of automobile usage.
LA's smoggy image is mainly because of the geography and meteorological circumstances. There's a thing called "inversion", which are separate layers in the sky. LA's smog is continuously accumulated below this inversion and because of the mountains, lack of eastern winds and rain it continues to hang above the city. All exhaust from every source can accumulate multiple days below this inversion, coloring the sky brownish. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions too fast by seeing smoggy pics from LA all the time.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 10:30 PM   #3010
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Yikes, ghastly!
Well to be fair, they are on the outskirts of DT and light and commuter rail will be extended into the area soon.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 10:46 PM   #3011
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Then explain to me why, after catalytic converters were made mandatory in the tailpipes of all vehicles, that the air quality improved in L.A.?

Yes, the port contributes to the poor air quality but so do the megafreeways and the autocentric culture it promoted.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 10:51 PM   #3012
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All, I'm saying is that it's a little more nuanced than usually said. Same counts for Houston by the way. While that is maybe even more an auto-centric city than LA, it also has huge industries along the Ship Canal.

I think air quality can be improved further with better fuel-efficient cars, or with the newest generation diesel cars. (diesel can easily be an option for most LA commuters). The newest diesel cars are as clean as hybrid gasoline cars and get the same mileage. I'm still waiting for an hybrid-diesel car though. I would love to buy one of those once, I think they can reach like 80 - 85 mpg.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 11:25 PM   #3013
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I remember Atlanta to be covered in smog. Some friend of mine over there has astma and has real difficulty with going to town on a so called 'orange day' so to speak.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #3014
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I've got pictures of 15 miles of I-405 and 20 miles of I-5 :] Anyone want to see?
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Old October 7th, 2008, 06:11 AM   #3015
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I've got pictures of 15 miles of I-405 and 20 miles of I-5 :] Anyone want to see?
Show 'em off, mate
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Old October 7th, 2008, 10:04 AM   #3016
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Many cities in a humid climate have that. The best air quality is usually found in northern coastal cities like Oslo or Helsinki.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 10:15 AM   #3017
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Yeah, show them
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Old October 7th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #3018
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I don't want to start a political thread, but do either presidential candidates have ever mentioned the infrastructure in their campaigning? Just curious.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #3019
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I've never heard any of them talking about it, but I don't follow it that close.....
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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:26 PM   #3020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't want to start a political thread, but do either presidential candidates have ever mentioned the infrastructure in their campaigning? Just curious.
Obama once mentioned the need of repairing the failing infrastructure including roads. No details on that though. McCain considers any such proposals to be pork spendings

Clearly, democrats are more likely to pay attention to roads improvement. Not that they WILL actually do it, just more likely to do it. Republicans propose to cut taxes further and further, so the fair question would be - where to get money on road projects?
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