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Old October 11th, 2008, 10:53 PM   #3061
HAWC1506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nice pics

Strange arrows and font:
Yeah, Washington is pretty inconsistent when it comes to standards. There are some vague roadmarkings too where you can't tell the difference between a solid white line and a double white line.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #3062
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Los Angeles (n): epitome of poor urban planning. Still, the New York City MSA (excluding the Pike County portion that shouldn't be in there anyway) is denser than the Los Angeles MSA.
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Old October 13th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #3063
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Originally Posted by DJZG View Post
is there any detailed map of LA highways...
How detailed do you want? Go to randmcnally.com and search for LA maps.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 02:19 AM   #3064
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Only in Seattle...makes me sick.

Eyman's latest aims at traffic jams; but will it work?

Story Published: Oct 12, 2008 at 3:10 PM PDT

Story Updated: Oct 12, 2008 at 5:50 PM PDT
By CURT WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - Taking aim at one of modern life's biggest frustrations, initiative promoter Tim Eyman is offering a measure that he claims will smooth out traffic jams, from those poorly timed small-town stoplights to the sea of cars on our biggest freeways.

Perhaps its most appealing bait: Solo drivers tired of being teased by more efficient travelers would get a shot at the car pool lane.

"Everybody has had that experience," Eyman says. "Middle of the day, bumper to bumper traffic, that empty lane sitting right next to you, and saying, 'I paid for that lane! If it were open to everyone, traffic would flow better."'

If it sounds too good to be true, a truckload of critics says you're right. They paint Eyman's latest as a poorly conceived blueprint that will scramble a strapped state budget, spend the whole state's money on a few urban traffic jams, and actually make some commuters' daily drudgery even worse.

With less than a week until absentee ballots are mailed to voters, the "no" campaign says it's steadily picking apart Eyman's sales pitch.

"The problem with Mr. Eyman is, when he's faced with the questioning on this, there's not much gas in the tank," said former state transportation secretary Doug MacDonald, a spokesman for the opposition.

If approved by voters, I-985 goes into effect in December. It would open up car pool lanes for all traffic, except for the "peak" hours of 6 a.m.-9 a.m. and 3 p.m.-6 p.m. on weekdays.

The initiative also would mandate synchronized traffic lights in cities and counties, and push the state to clear up accidents faster.

To pay for these new programs, I-985 would skim a slice of the state sales tax on vehicles, collect any "profit" from tolls, and grab the traffic ticket money from cameras that nab red-light runners.

Any money left over after fulfilling those goals would go to laying new roads - not buses, trains or any other projects that, in Eyman's estimation, don't help the state's hard-working, traffic-addled drivers.

Eyman pitches I-985 as a follow-up to State Auditor Brian Sonntag's 2007 report on possible solutions for the state's traffic tie-ups - a report issued after a previous Eyman initiative, I-900, created the performance audit program.

That audit made 22 recommendations, but Eyman says the Legislature and state Transportation Department have been too slow to make changes. Passing I-985, he says, "swift-kicks Olympia in the shins" by forcing the politicians into action.

But out of Sonntag's 22 recommendations, I-985 only implements two: coordinating traffic signals and clearing up crashes. Eyman says to avoid his solution, the Legislature should have acted first.

"Hey guys, you had your chance to do it your way. You have no standing to criticize the way we did it," Eyman said, adding that his ultimate goal is to ensure lawmakers pay more attention to future performance audits.

To counter Eyman's message, MacDonald and the opposition have taken up an Eymanesque argument - that his statewide policy for traffic problems will inevitably spend more money on urban areas where traffic is worst, giving rural or suburban folks short shrift.

"People have figured out that giant sucking sound is the sound of money going to Seattle from Eastern Washington," MacDonald said. "That's hardly been an Eyman trademark."

They've also got more nuanced attacks. New restrictions on tolling, for instance, would make it impossible to charge for crossing Lake Washington on both I-90 and State Route 520, which officials say is necessary to sufficiently pay for the 520 bridge replacement.

If I-90 is left toll-free, as I-985 would have it, too many drivers will bypass the 520 toll booths, driving down toll collections that are a major part of the new bridge's financing plan.

And opening up all car pool lanes could be a disaster in places, such as I-5, where car pool lanes are converted shoulders that sometimes fly away from the freeway on separate ramps.

More cars in those lanes will eventually mean more wrecks in hard-to-reach spots, MacDonald says, which won't help anybody reach their destination faster.

Opponents worry, however, that there's not enough room in a crowded election year to make a comprehensive case against I-985. If they can't get enough of their arguments in front of voters, the emotional tug of essentially voting against bad traffic could prevail.

"I know we could catch him if we had enough time," MacDonald says. "The thing is falling apart at the seams every day."

For his part, Eyman already has a victory "Freedom Drive" sketched out.

He plans to pilot a pickup - alone - in the highway car pool lanes during the first free-for-all period after the law takes effect. A sign in the back will read: "Drive in this lane. You paid for it. It's the law."
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Old October 14th, 2008, 07:58 AM   #3065
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Amazing pics...

Unbelieveable!!!

Wonderful freeways!!!
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Old October 14th, 2008, 10:20 AM   #3066
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I hate people like Eyman It's a shame he lives in Seattle. It would be hard to imagine something like this happening in Bay Area.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #3067
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Public Purpose about Smart Growth in Portland. They apparantly don't think it's a good solution.

The author is Wendell Cox, some traffic expert.

Quote:
However, traffic intensity (vehicle miles per square mile) is not, in itself, a determinant of traffic congestion. For example, an urban area with a modest traffic intensity, but with a substandard road network can have worse traffic congestion than an area with much greater traffic intensity.
Interesting approach in measuring traffic intensity. I have never read about this kind of measuring (vehicle miles per square unit) in the Netherlands, they usually only look at the traffic volumes per road.

Quote:
Atlanta is an example of an urban area with a substandard road network (the virtual lack of a quality arterial street system), relatively low traffic intensity and highly congested traffic.
He seems about right here. Problem is the road network did not catch up with the extreme vastness of the Atlanta agglomeration. But what to do about it? You can widen or add freeways in those suburban areas but how wide should the system be around downtown? You can't just add endless amounts of lanes around downtown areas. And downtown Atlanta's freeways are already pretty wide. Maybe it's the way how the network is layed out. Too much traffic centers around the I-75/I-85 overlap. Perhaps they should've build a small beltway around downtown with a bit more radiating expressways/freeways so traffic is more spread out and reduces the chances for huge delays on the one freeway that's actually there.

Quote:
But holding the roadway system constant, higher densities will make traffic congestion worse.
Yeah makes sense. Higher densities give public transport a chance of being efficient, however PT does not takes enough traffic off the road in order not having to increase capacity of the existing highway network.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #3068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
How detailed do you want? Go to randmcnally.com and search for LA maps.
thx for help i found what i was looking for

i found this map if its accurate?

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Old October 14th, 2008, 12:29 PM   #3069
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Wendell Cox is a shill. He begs the question by ignoring most every aspect of transportation and land use planning other than road congestion. He isn't taken seriously as a transportation expert, and if you put much stock in what he says, you won't be, either. Besides that, roadbuilding on the massive scale he advocates simply isn't feasible.

Re Eyman's plan, I think it's dumb, too, but the part-time HOV lanes on I-20 in Atlanta were an unexpected law enforcement bonanza. As it turns out, people get confused about when they can and can't use the lanes, and petty criminals, being stupid, are more prone to such confusion than most people. Stops for HOV violations often revealed stolen cars, outstanding warrants, no insurance, that kind of thing.

Last edited by Tom 958; October 14th, 2008 at 12:37 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 12:37 PM   #3070
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He has some good points though. However, I don't agree with him on urban planning and zoning for instance, you don't want more of those Houston/Atlanta lookalikes. I'm not sure about Portland though. I've read somewhere it's congestion is the highest per capita.

Well, I think there can be much debate about how things should be measured. That's the problem with statistics, you can turn it into the way you want it.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #3071
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I hate people like Eyman It's a shame he lives in Seattle. It would be hard to imagine something like this happening in Bay Area.
Someone called me a liberal on that news page (in the comments section). I hate people like that. All they care about is themselves, and that reflects a lot of Americans actually.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 01:37 AM   #3072
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Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
Someone called me a liberal on that news page (in the comments section). I hate people like that. All they care about is themselves, and that reflects a lot of Americans actually.
I don't wanna be another I-don't-carican.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 02:15 AM   #3073
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SPUI

There's one in San Jose on CA 87 @ Taylor Street. Very nice.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 04:03 AM   #3074
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I don't wanna be another I-don't-carican.
Yeah things have to change haha time for a great awakening in the land of the free.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 03:49 AM   #3075
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Yes that is very accurate.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #3076
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Thanks for the pics, but this one annoys me. Are we out in the sticks somewhere?
[img]http://i35.************/2vm9ceq.jpg[/img]

Here's one I took yesterday from the opposite roadway. The previous pic was taken from under the lowest bridge. All the bridges have retrofitted suicide fencing.


While we're in the neighborhood, here's one of my favorites: MARTA's crossing of I-75/85 downtown. The MARTA aerial was built before the widening of I-75/85 was designed, so the piers had to be relocated to accommodate the highway. To the left, the square box with the rust stain is like giant hands grasping the top of what used to be a pier. Right of that, two elbows sit atop new piers between the mainline and an onramp, and right of there the shoulders are a free-standing abutment with the concrete arms post tensioned downward against uplift. Pretty neat, huh?
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Old October 16th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #3077
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Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
Thanks for the pics, but this one annoys me. Are we out in the sticks somewhere?
[img]http://i35.************/2vm9ceq.jpg[/img]
What do you mean?
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Old October 16th, 2008, 11:01 PM   #3078
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It's right in the middle of downtown, but there are no highrises or cool bridges in view.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings-- I appreciate the photos. And I've been meaning to post one of that MARTA bridge for a while-- now I've gotten off my butt and done it.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 11:12 PM   #3079
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Ah, ok, I didn't know that expression , and no, you didn't hurt my feelings.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #3080
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That bridgedeck looks really thin.
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