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Old October 26th, 2008, 12:57 AM   #3101
HAWC1506
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The U.S. is only smart enough to design traffic safety, but not educate about/enforce traffic safety. Thinking here is so short-term it's not even funny...That's what happens when you have a nation full of wasteful, conservative idiots who think they're still in the 1950s.

We can build, but we can't educate, we can't maintain and we can't do anything other than sitting on our behinds and complain. And yet we wonder why our traffic is so bad, why we are behind in transportation and why our quality of life is falling.

I have a lot of respect for the government who built the Interstates in the 1950s. Forward-thinking was better back then. Now, everything seems so hopeless. Where are the good leaders? I can only hope that someone influential and smart enough will take lead of this country soon. The U.S. has always done a great job bouncing back from disasters like the current economical crisis, so I hope we can take another 'great leap' in a few years.

But for the current United States, the picture Konrakfon posted says it all.

Vote Obama.

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Originally Posted by konrakfon View Post
Interstate 5 Northbound

California State Exit 136B

From www.westcoastroads.com


Last edited by HAWC1506; October 26th, 2008 at 01:03 AM.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 03:10 AM   #3102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
The U.S. is only smart enough to design traffic safety, but not educate about/enforce traffic safety. Thinking here is so short-term it's not even funny...That's what happens when you have a nation full of wasteful, conservative idiots who think they're still in the 1950s.

We can build, but we can't educate, we can't maintain and we can't do anything other than sitting on our behinds and complain. And yet we wonder why our traffic is so bad, why we are behind in transportation and why our quality of life is falling.

I have a lot of respect for the government who built the Interstates in the 1950s. Forward-thinking was better back then. Now, everything seems so hopeless. Where are the good leaders? I can only hope that someone influential and smart enough will take lead of this country soon. The U.S. has always done a great job bouncing back from disasters like the current economical crisis, so I hope we can take another 'great leap' in a few years.

But for the current United States, the picture Konrakfon posted says it all.

Vote Obama.
What's wrong with voting Bob Barr as a protest vote? Maybe because Gov't has proven unwilling to be forward-thinking, we ought to move toward privatization. Practically every motorway in Eastern China is tolled, and we see how much they're able to build.
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But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when thereīs snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of itīs best definition first. -Radi Click
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Old October 26th, 2008, 03:26 AM   #3103
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Originally Posted by AUchamps View Post
What's wrong with voting Bob Barr as a protest vote?

that's just an idiotic way of thinking and a waste of a vote. voting is not a privilege it's a right. why not just stay home?
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Old October 26th, 2008, 03:29 AM   #3104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
The U.S. is only smart enough to design traffic safety, but not educate about/enforce traffic safety. Thinking here is so short-term it's not even funny...That's what happens when you have a nation full of wasteful, conservative idiots who think they're still in the 1950s.

We can build, but we can't educate, we can't maintain and we can't do anything other than sitting on our behinds and complain. And yet we wonder why our traffic is so bad, why we are behind in transportation and why our quality of life is falling.

I have a lot of respect for the government who built the Interstates in the 1950s. Forward-thinking was better back then. Now, everything seems so hopeless. Where are the good leaders? I can only hope that someone influential and smart enough will take lead of this country soon. The U.S. has always done a great job bouncing back from disasters like the current economical crisis, so I hope we can take another 'great leap' in a few years.

But for the current United States, the picture Konrakfon posted says it all.

Vote Obama.

I concur


I lived in Massachusetts before moving back to California. the quality of roads in Massachusetts is heart breaking. a developed nation with third world level of roads. let's just hope we'll get it together this time.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:20 AM   #3105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUchamps View Post
What's wrong with voting Bob Barr as a protest vote? Maybe because Gov't has proven unwilling to be forward-thinking, we ought to move toward privatization. Practically every motorway in Eastern China is tolled, and we see how much they're able to build.
It would be illegal to toll the interstate highway system, and completely unfeasible. Who would pay for installing toll booths on EVERY SINGLE INTERCHANGE IN THE SYSTEM???? Use the money to fix the damn roads.

And American infrastructure has deteriorated under right-wing conservative, pro-privatization, leadership, that has cut taxes and infrastructure spending. We need left wingers that will invest in America, not in oil wars.

China is building so many roads because they spend 9% of their GDP on infrastructure. America spends less than ONE percent.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:27 AM   #3106
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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
It would be illegal to toll the interstate highway system, and completely unfeasible. Who would pay for installing toll booths on EVERY SINGLE INTERCHANGE IN THE SYSTEM???? Use the money to fix the damn roads.

And American infrastructure has deteriorated under right-wing conservative, pro-privatization, leadership, that has cut taxes and infrastructure spending. We need left wingers that will invest in America, not in oil wars.

China is building so many roads because they spend 9% of their GDP on infrastructure. America spends less than ONE percent.
Ok, what about a "P3" system? Public-Private-Partnership?

Or we could do like Mitch and all have "Major Moves" projects in our states too.

http://www.in.gov/indot/7039.htm
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But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when thereīs snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of itīs best definition first. -Radi Click
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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:53 AM   #3107
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Ok, what about a "P3" system? Public-Private-Partnership?

Or we could do like Mitch and all have "Major Moves" projects in our states too.

http://www.in.gov/indot/7039.htm

Major Moves "leased" an EXISTING toll road to a private consortium. There is nothing stopping states from leasing their own toll roads.

However, such a deal wouldn't work on a non-toll highway. It is illegal and the public would revolt.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 06:00 AM   #3108
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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Major Moves "leased" an EXISTING toll road to a private consortium. There is nothing stopping states from leasing their own toll roads.

However, such a deal wouldn't work on a non-toll highway. It is illegal and the public would revolt.
And while it can't be done in every state, I can throw out over a dozen that it would benefit.

-Massachusetts
-New York
-New Hampshire
-New Jersey
-Delaware
-Pennsylvania
-Florida
-Kansas
-Oklahoma
-Illinois(Chicago Skyway is already an example, go city of Chicago and Mayor Daley for making it happen)
-West Virginia
-Maine
-Ohio
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But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when thereīs snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of itīs best definition first. -Radi Click
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Old October 26th, 2008, 07:48 AM   #3109
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Personally, I am very much against tolling. I think the U.S. government needs to clean up a bit and streamline funding. The next thing to do would be to raise the gas tax and make gas prices hover at about $5-6 dollars a gallon and diesel at $4.50. What happens right now is that we'll have funding for a project, but attached to the project itself is a whole bunch of other junk that drives costs up. Then, some states including Washington, tax themselves. So a 4 billion dollar project will have a few-hundred million dollars worth of sales tax that will drive the cost even higher. The tax then goes to the general fund for schools/parks/other government stuff. Bottom line, gas tax should be for roads and roads only.

There's no reason to toll. America can't manage traffic as it is, and having toll booths would just overwhelm DOTs who can't even build a straight guardrail. If Germany can build world-class highways without tolls, there is no reason why the world's 'richest' country can't. Americans should get off the 'we-are-so-great' train and start realizing that we're practically the most third-world of modern countries.

Last edited by HAWC1506; October 26th, 2008 at 07:55 AM.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 12:53 PM   #3110
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Yeah, in fact the US has one of the worst accident/death rates of the developed world, sadly.
Depends how you measure it. If you count it per x number of inhabitants, yes, it's pretty bad, but if you measure it by the number of miles driven, it's not much worse than Europe.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 12:55 PM   #3111
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I've never seen a single car accident in the US actually. I guess it's just luck. Well, I saw a car hitting a deer, but that was in Canada.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:09 PM   #3112
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It's one thing to build a new road as a toll road, but it's another to convert it to one. Not easy at all!
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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:32 PM   #3113
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The US has a lot of accidents, you just don't see them or hear much about them(except from traffic reports).
I'm curious if anybody has some US stats about accidents comparable to those in Europe... Maybe Chris?
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Old October 26th, 2008, 06:11 PM   #3114
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

Sort the "Road fatalities
per 1 billion
vehicle-km" list
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Old October 26th, 2008, 06:16 PM   #3115
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It's a surprise for me that Belgium is doing so bad. USA is quite bad as well.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #3116
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No, the USA isn't that bad at all. The Netherlands is the safest country in the world after Malta on traffic fatalities and the U.S. isn't that far behind. Like I said, it's how you calculate it. Per 100.000 inhabitants gives a higher fatality rate than per billion travelled miles because Americans drive more than Europeans. The US non-freeway record is even better than the Dutch one.

Belgium has always been worse. It's partially because of the infrastructure (bad maintenance, suicide lanes, cyclists on 120km/h roads etc, but also about the driving habits and education, which is of a far lower standard than Germany for instance.)
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Old October 26th, 2008, 06:21 PM   #3117
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Yeah, that's true. We Dutch have our death roads (N33, N35, both aren't freeways). In that case it's not surprising that the USA is doing better
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Old October 26th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #3118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astralis View Post
I'm curious if anybody has some US stats about accidents comparable to those in Europe... Maybe Chris?
http://www.autosavant.com/2008/08/28...-on-the-right/

That article explains some safety issues in the U.S.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 11:01 PM   #3119
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
No, the USA isn't that bad at all. The Netherlands is the safest country in the world after Malta on traffic fatalities and the U.S. isn't that far behind. Like I said, it's how you calculate it. Per 100.000 inhabitants gives a higher fatality rate than per billion travelled miles because Americans drive more than Europeans. The US non-freeway record is even better than the Dutch one.

Belgium has always been worse. It's partially because of the infrastructure (bad maintenance, suicide lanes, cyclists on 120km/h roads etc, but also about the driving habits and education, which is of a far lower standard than Germany for instance.)
What makes Belgian drivers bad?
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Old October 26th, 2008, 11:06 PM   #3120
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As Chris said, the suicide lane is very dangerous. In the Ardennes drivers think they can still pass that car in front of them before that hill, and thus can't see the car coming from the other side. Boom. Accident. And the drivers aren't that well educated like in Germany.
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