daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 21st, 2008, 06:39 PM   #3501
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

The Dutch gas prices hit $ 10 a gallon in July, and the country didn't collapse. The real effects were not very good to measure, since it was a holiday periode (July and August have completely different traffic patterns), though during the months/years in advance of the highest gas prices, we were living with 7 - 8 dollar gas prices too. Since traffic jams increased with 10% annually during the same period, it didn't look like we were driving less, at least not on the freeways.

People tend to combine commuter drives with shopping, instead of going twice. That saves some fuel. But then again, your montly fuel expenses don't get that much higher from driving a few times a week to the mall which is like 4 miles away or something.

If American cars get European fuel mileages, gas can reach 6 - 7 dollars per gallon, with people spending the same amount of money on gas as they do with a 3 - 4 dollar gas price, simply because they consume less of it. Besides that, diesel is still uncommon along personal cars, while it can be interesting for those who commute long distances because of the significant lower (up to 30%) fuel consumption than gasoline.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 21st, 2008, 06:46 PM   #3502
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

A few weeks ago they said on the news that traffic jams decreased with 15% last year. So it looks like we started driving less in the Netherlands. For the rest it sums it all up, Chris

And indeed some American cars have a horrible mileage. Our Prius gets 47 miles a gallon. Even our previous car (very consuming, considering European standards) did 24 miles a gallon. That is still quite good if it were an American car. And see what happened to GM that stayed producing high-consuming tanks, thinking that the price will never get so high that people can't afford the cars anymore
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2008, 06:52 PM   #3503
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
A few weeks ago they said on the news that traffic jams decreased with 15% last year. So it looks like we started driving less in the Netherlands. For the rest it sums it all up, Chris

.
It was 10 - 15% based on calculation differences, and only for the last two months compared to october/november 2007. We'll see what it does for the whole year. The 2 major traffic information gave different causes to this decrease in traffic jams; one said it was due to better weather conditions (a bit of rain reduces capacity quite a lot on Dutch freeways since they're all jam-packed). The other one said it was due to the collapse of road freight because of the economic crisis, which is true, some major trucking companies had to cut jobs or went bankrupt alltogether. The trucking company my dad drives for on saturdays also went bankrupt.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2008, 06:55 PM   #3504
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

That's right. The transport and building industry is having hard times. I feel sorry for your dad Chris. It must be hard to find a new job. Luckily my dad retired a few years ago, because the company he was working for is also facing difficult times now
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2008, 07:01 PM   #3505
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

My dad drives a truck for hobby purposes, but he is being transferred to another trucking company. 50 truckers lost their job though.

Anyway, here's a great I-310 in Louisiana video!

ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2008, 01:29 AM   #3506
Xusein
 
Xusein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 26,172
Likes (Received): 10378

Nice video. I like that bridge on the Mississippi river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
I know a lot of environmentalists/anti-sprawl types like to fantasize that if gas prices hit $10 or whatever, then American suburbs will collapse overnight, but that's hardly the case. More likely, people will remain in their suburbs and continue to work at their nearby suburban office parks, continue to go to their suburban schools, continue to shop at their suburban malls, etc.
Most possible. However, higher gas prices did encourage many suburbs to build more densely.

Suburbs will always exist, but their urban planning will change.
Xusein no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2008, 04:01 AM   #3507
AUchamps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 386
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Dutch gas prices hit $ 10 a gallon in July, and the country didn't collapse. The real effects were not very good to measure, since it was a holiday periode (July and August have completely different traffic patterns), though during the months/years in advance of the highest gas prices, we were living with 7 - 8 dollar gas prices too. Since traffic jams increased with 10% annually during the same period, it didn't look like we were driving less, at least not on the freeways.

People tend to combine commuter drives with shopping, instead of going twice. That saves some fuel. But then again, your montly fuel expenses don't get that much higher from driving a few times a week to the mall which is like 4 miles away or something.

If American cars get European fuel mileages, gas can reach 6 - 7 dollars per gallon, with people spending the same amount of money on gas as they do with a 3 - 4 dollar gas price, simply because they consume less of it. Besides that, diesel is still uncommon along personal cars, while it can be interesting for those who commute long distances because of the significant lower (up to 30%) fuel consumption than gasoline.
Like I said Chris, the answer is in planning for development and logistics the same way the US Military does on their American bases.
__________________
But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when there´s snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of it´s best definition first. -Radi Click
AUchamps no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2008, 05:12 AM   #3508
phattonez
Bleed Dodger Blue
 
phattonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The City of Angels
Posts: 1,773
Likes (Received): 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUchamps View Post
Like I said Chris, the answer is in planning for development and logistics the same way the US Military does on their American bases.
US cities have huge planning. The only problem is that zoning is used to cap density to artificially low levels, meaning that development gets spread out to every nook and cranny and it is all dangerously low. With less planning I think we would actually get smarter development.
__________________
“Violence is not necessary to destroy a civilization. Each civilization dies from
indifference toward the unique values which created it.” - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

"A wicked man puts up a bold front, but an upright man gives thought to his ways." - Proverbs 21: 29
phattonez no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2008, 05:14 AM   #3509
AUchamps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 386
Likes (Received): 4

If you've been on a Military Base in the past couple of months, then you'd understand exactly why I'm so high on the planning that went into designing and planning on those bases.
__________________
But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when there´s snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of it´s best definition first. -Radi Click
AUchamps no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2008, 08:54 AM   #3510
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by J N Winkler View Post
In the United States, the stack runner-up to Texas is California with 9, and after California there are several states with three apiece (Arizona, Ohio, and Michigan), and a few others with two apiece (Alabama and Maryland), and a number with just one stack. About half of the US states do not have stacks.
There are two conventional 4-level 'stack' interchanges in New York, too. Both are in Albany.

Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2008, 11:57 PM   #3511
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,445
Likes (Received): 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As for affordability and living atmosphere; yes.
Then you haven't spent anytime in American suburbia. It is as soulless and detached from nature as you can get. Huge identical homes poorly made with massive three car garages in front. People stay inside and do not interact with their neighbors the way someone living in a dense, tree-lined city block of rowhouses would.
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 12:44 AM   #3512
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Yes, but they have a nice house, a big garden, two cars, a perfect lawn and a good job. Which sounds quite much like the American Dream
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:29 AM   #3513
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Yes, but they have a nice house, a big garden, two cars, a perfect lawn and a good job. Which sounds quite much like the American Dream
I'd rather live in a more densely populated area. I'm in the suburbs right now and I can't get anywhere without taking the car. The nearest place I can get to is a grocery store and a starbucks with a 20 minute walk, which isn't bad, but that's the only place...
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:39 AM   #3514
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Exactly, that's the problem. But as already said before, the suburbs are to sparsely populated so that a commuter rail won't work because it's too far from most houses. In the Netherlands the suburbs are quite densely populated, but one km out of most suburbs you can completely in the middle of nowhere. So that means that most railway stations in the suburbs have got quite much passengers. My town, for example, only has 8000 inhabitants, but the local train station has 1200 daily passengers (getting on and off trains). The US just has too much land, and therefore not many restrictions are made, I conclude.
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 11:14 AM   #3515
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Exactly, that's the problem. But as already said before, the suburbs are to sparsely populated so that a commuter rail won't work because it's too far from most houses. In the Netherlands the suburbs are quite densely populated, but one km out of most suburbs you can completely in the middle of nowhere. So that means that most railway stations in the suburbs have got quite much passengers. My town, for example, only has 8000 inhabitants, but the local train station has 1200 daily passengers (getting on and off trains). The US just has too much land, and therefore not many restrictions are made, I conclude.
American dream = waste. Our governments don't know how to control land use. I think we were probably better off being ruled by the British...
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 11:16 AM   #3516
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
I'd rather live in a more densely populated area. I'm in the suburbs right now and I can't get anywhere without taking the car. The nearest place I can get to is a grocery store and a starbucks with a 20 minute walk, which isn't bad, but that's the only place...
We Dutch people also don't go to the grocery store walking, unless we're living on top of it. We usually take the bicycle, but all parking spaces are loaded to capacity for cars too. Especially in suburbs, with a higher amount of people per household, your groceries are too much to do walking or cycling. Try to stack up a couple of days of food for 4 - 5 people on a bicycle.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:05 PM   #3517
AUchamps
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 386
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
We Dutch people also don't go to the grocery store walking, unless we're living on top of it. We usually take the bicycle, but all parking spaces are loaded to capacity for cars too. Especially in suburbs, with a higher amount of people per household, your groceries are too much to do walking or cycling. Try to stack up a couple of days of food for 4 - 5 people on a bicycle.
Exactly. I like how some on here wish the USA could be more dense like Europe yet conveniently forget that Europe invented the Hypermarket. Wal-Mart just copied what Carrefour and Tesco created and renamed it the Supercenter over here in North America, South America, and Asia.
__________________
But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when there´s snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of it´s best definition first. -Radi Click
AUchamps no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:13 PM   #3518
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,445
Likes (Received): 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
We Dutch people also don't go to the grocery store walking, unless we're living on top of it. We usually take the bicycle, but all parking spaces are loaded to capacity for cars too. Especially in suburbs, with a higher amount of people per household, your groceries are too much to do walking or cycling. Try to stack up a couple of days of food for 4 - 5 people on a bicycle.
Then don't buy several days worth of food at a time. In New York City and other urban environments, people only have to walk a couple of blocks to go to a food market. Are you actually arguing in favor of a development pattern such that people are forced to drive 10 minutes to the nearest sprawlmart with a cubic km of parking to do their shopping?
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:15 PM   #3519
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,445
Likes (Received): 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Yes, but they have a nice house, a big garden, two cars, a perfect lawn and a good job. Which sounds quite much like the American Dream
Not necessarily true. The American Dream is a myth- most people do not have what you are describing. Not to mention that it is incredibly wasteful of resources- land, water, and oil.
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:34 PM   #3520
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

I was actually being sarcastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Not to mention that it is incredibly wasteful of resources- land, water, and oil.
As I said: the American dream
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
america, california, highway, highways, interstate, los angeles, united states, urban

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium