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Old January 24th, 2007, 09:43 AM   #341
Jaxom92
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A good way to get the latest news on the viaduct and other Seattle issues is by going to www.seattlechannel.org.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 05:05 AM   #342
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A Couple Updates

The language for the ballot that will decide the fate of the Alaskan way Viaduct (well... not really decide, it will show the governor what "Seattleites think of the project" as she put it) has been settled. The ballot will list a yes/no choice for the viaduct, and a yes/no choice for the "tunnel lite" proposal. So in other words, the city could vote that it doesn't want either of the two choices.... After some pressure from governor, the ballot questions will also mention the projected cost of each choice.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...aduct25m0.html

Another minor development; due to the rise of the "tunnel lite" proposal, a few officials have begun to ask why there is no "viaduct lite" proposal. But doesn't sound like anyones paying much attention to that idea (probably a good thing).


It's just my feeling that this whole process is getting a little embarrassing for the city and state in general. Instead of spending the money to get a group of transportation engineers together with Seattle city planners to properly study all the possible solutions to this problem, they're spending the money on votes that might not matter and lawsuits that might not get filed. Instead of trying to get a smart well thought out decision by people who know what they're doing, they're letting a single city decide what to do with state money, and only letting them pick between two alternatives that obviously (despite all the posturing) don't address all concerns. This is what frustrates me about this country nowadays. Every important but complicated decision turns into a political/PR bitchfest.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 05:16 AM   #343
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A few of the (gag) special interest groups that have popped up in the wake of the vote announcement:

Not another elevated Viaduct:
http://www.noelevated.org/index.html

Friends for a better waterfront
(couldn't find a website for these guys)

No Tunnel Alliance:
http://www.notunnelalliance.com/

Peoples waterfront Coalition:
http://www.peopleswaterfront.org/
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Old January 26th, 2007, 05:20 AM   #344
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From the People's waterfront Coalition (made me chuckle):

For the cost of a tunnel we could:

* Purchase 10,000 helicopters, one for every dozen Viaduct commuters and fly them downtown instead
* Build six more pairs of stadiums
* Write every Viaduct commuter a check for $50,000
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 11:49 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
A few of the (gag) special interest groups that have popped up in the wake of the vote announcement:

How are these "special interest" groups? What financial benefit do these people stand to gain by defeating the proposal?
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 12:11 AM   #346
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This has been a hot topic at UW lately, especially in the Urban Studies/Planning classes. The general feeling is that the tunnel would not be so positive for traffic flow but good for the city, especially as we are trying to move away from car culture. Most of the reasoning is based on the "open spaces" theory popularized in the 1980's. I think it should be built (or dug), it is a good project. The Governor and the Mayor should show some backbone on this. It will make the city a better place.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 12:26 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelser View Post
How are these "special interest" groups? What financial benefit do these people stand to gain by defeating the proposal?
Is it not obvious? They want their $50,000 check and a helicopter!
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 07:34 PM   #348
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If this is a major shipping route, then trucks can't just suck it up. Has to be done in some way shape or form. Long term investment would win out in the tunnel option. Rebuild the viaduct and you're gonna still be wishing for what you could be doing now.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:24 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
If this is a major shipping route, then trucks can't just suck it up. Has to be done in some way shape or form. Long term investment would win out in the tunnel option. Rebuild the viaduct and you're gonna still be wishing for what you could be doing now.
According to the No Build people (so take it for what its worth) the "frieght" that goes on the Viaduct is just stuff destined for downtown, and makes up only about 4% of the traffic on the viaduct. Most of the container cargo from the port of Seattle goes to either I-5 or I-90.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 06:01 AM   #350
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People changing minds again

Noticed 2 articles on the subject today in the Seattle Times. One talking about how both Chopp and Nickels say they would take the surface street option as their second choice (agreement, yay!). And another about a local structural engineer proposing a "much cheaper" (ONLY $1.2 Billion) retrofit of the existing viaduct that would make it earthquake sound. Meanwhile the state is studying the 4 lane tunnel and now a 4 lane elevated highway.


Surface Street Agreement:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...viaduct08.html

Existing Viaduct Retrofit:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...iaduct08m.html

I'm hoping the agreement between chopp and nickels persuades the governor to look at the surface street option and they bag the whole vote thing. It worked in San Francisco and Portland, it can work here.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 09:40 AM   #351
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"2000m" in Europe vs. "2km" in Australia and Canada

Have you ever wondered why in Europe motorway signs use metres to indicate the distance to a local exit while in Canada and Australia they exclusively use kilometres if it is 1km or more.

For instance, this is a pic from Australia posted by a forum member:



And this pic I stole from www.ceskedalnice.cz (Czech Republic):



As you see, the same distance is written diffrerently. What do you think could be the reason for this?

My hypothesis is simple. Before Canada and Australia converted to metric system, the distances were indicated in miles. Since miles are not conveniently related to shorter units (feet or yards), even local distances are written in miles - ¼ miles, ¾ miles, 1½ miles, etc. I believe after conversion those countries chose to stay with a single unit - km. Europe, on the other hand, converted a very long time ago, so Europeans know how to convert between metres and kilometres quite well

I personally like the European signage in metres better because it gives me the sense of precision (which might or might not be the case).
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Old February 9th, 2007, 10:06 AM   #352
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why is exit written in english?
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Old February 9th, 2007, 11:55 AM   #353
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Maybe because English is an international language? For an official explanation you have to contact the Czech Ministry of Transport.

But let's not go off topic please.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #354
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meters give you a somewhat better sense of distances <2km, although it is the same.
I prefer meters up to 2000m, and higher, kilometers.

Quote:
why is exit written in english?
possible because the word východ doesn't make too much sense to foreigners
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Old February 9th, 2007, 04:28 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
meters give you a somewhat better sense of distances <2km, although it is the same.
I prefer meters up to 2000m, and higher, kilometers.


possible because the word východ doesn't make too much sense to foreigners
Well, the same is true for uscita, ausgang or sortie but while driving in those countries it's never been a problem to adapt... Especially that in general there is an arrow pointing to the exterior leaving no doubt about it !

And by the way, I don't understand why it has to be to local Czech people to adapt rather than to foreign visitors.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #356
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^ Instead of the word "exit" I'd prefer some illustration, which would represent exit, like in Germany and elsewhere...
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Old February 9th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #357
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Damn it, I should have thought about picking a different example!
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Old February 9th, 2007, 05:44 PM   #358
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I think in case of Czech republic(EU) is mean that EXIT 2000 m is very close and
using KM mean that is far away from your position

Prague 60 km/ Prague part Bohnice 2000 m
so is using as safety for drivers that they have slow down and start to be carefull
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Old February 9th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #359
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I guess it's because the 2000 m doesn't stand by itself, it's probably part of a sequence of sings.
The other distances might be like 1500 m, 1000 m, 600 m, 250 m, whatever. Then there are three options:

2 km, 1.5 km, 1 km, 0.6 km, 0.25 km
2 km, 1500 m, 1 km, 600 m, 250 m
2000 m, 1500 m, 1000, 600, 250 m

You see the point? It's probably better to use only meters OR kilometers, since mixing might be confusing. And then choosing meters is probably better then just kilometers, because kms would lead to ugly things like '0.25 km'.
So: they choose to use '2000 m'.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 10:19 PM   #360
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2 km, 1.5 km, 1 km, 600 m, 250 m

Only meters OR kilometres? The possibility of using km until you reach a single kilometre and then reverting to metres really isn't THAT confusing. Especially if there's a larger gap between distance demarcations (ie. 2 km, 500m or 1 km, 200 m). If anything, I find it to be the most simple method as you avoid both decimals and extravagant digits. Suppose simplest is largely just what you're used to.
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