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Old January 17th, 2009, 10:00 AM   #3741
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That would be a good thing. Californian model suburbs are probably better than the east coast one. If only the California model also allowed for better access for pedestrians and cyclists (avoiding long detours due to layout).
Hi, I'm new here. I've been reading all your post for a while now. As for Californian suburbs, y'all check out those suburbs surround the San Francisco bay area. We have much better access for pedestrians and cyclists (especially the East Bay)
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Old January 17th, 2009, 10:08 AM   #3742
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http://www.ebparks.org/parks/trails

aside from those trails in the East Bay, almost every street has sidewalk for pedestrains and cyclists
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Old January 18th, 2009, 01:47 AM   #3743
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I don't know about California suburbia. With some exceptions like Pasadena and Santa Monica, its the same shit.
California suburbs are the definition of sprawl. Anything that's not downtown in California is spread out.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #3744
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But doesn't that count for nearly every US metropolitan area? Also, I don't think California is particularly more car-crazy/dependent/loving than most other areas of the United States.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 12:41 PM   #3745
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I think it depends what part of California you're talking about as well. San Francisco and LA look like very different examples. On the east coast you have NYC which is very dense, but it's metro area goes out as far as the eye can see and then some. There's actually nothing wrong with suburbs IF they're built with pedestrians in mind. The problem, in my opinion, are the towns that are nothing put parking lots connected by roads that have no facilities for people to actually walk. Even if they have sidewalks, or pavements as they call them in the UK, can you safely cross at intersections? Or are you made to feel like a second class citizen to the mom with a mobile phone stuck to her ear wondering why someone is walking across the street when she's TRYING to make a right hand turn with her SUV?
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Old January 18th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #3746
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But doesn't that count for nearly every US metropolitan area? Also, I don't think California is particularly more car-crazy/dependent/loving than most other areas of the United States.
The term car culture was created and defined in Southern California. Many people in the US think of LA as nothing but a giant traffic jam and some movie stars. The Bay Area may be a little different, but SoCal is absolutely car dependent.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 10:33 PM   #3747
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Near the Pentagon, Virginia:
[IMG]http://i41.************/2utrx9u.jpg[/IMG]
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Old January 19th, 2009, 02:00 AM   #3748
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Most of suburbia residents (upper middle class) need to get loans in order to buy a home or a car, but if no banks are willing to borrow them money, how can they afford this luxurious way of life? I think it is even more serious than the price of oil.
Well, to buy house or flat or condo somewhere downtown they'll need even more money. If they won't get mortgage for house in the suburbs they won't get it for anything closer to downtown.
I personally believe existing suburbs will get denser and more pedestrian friendly, better served with public transport, rather than in mass migration towards downtowns.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 02:08 AM   #3749
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That's what people here don't understand. Not everyone wants a $400,000 urban warehouse conversion loft downtown, especially when they can get something for twice the square footage for half the price in a suburb. 90% of people don't give a damn about architecture or what whiny liberals think about "McMansions".

Also, a young man (not unlike all the hipsters that post here) can go and live by himself in the city. With his wife, it becomes a bit more risky when you consider how much crime takes place in the urban areas. The suburbs (many of which are practically crime free) start to look a lot more attractive. You add in some kids, and that small home space, lack of outdoor playing space, and utterly shit American urban public schools (and not to mention their costly private school alternatives), it starts to make almost zero sense to live in the city, unless you're extremely rich and can shield yourself from all the undesirable elements.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 04:34 AM   #3750
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That's what people here don't understand. Not everyone wants a $400,000 urban warehouse conversion loft downtown, especially when they can get something for twice the square footage for half the price in a suburb. 90% of people don't give a damn about architecture or what whiny liberals think about "McMansions".

Also, a young man (not unlike all the hipsters that post here) can go and live by himself in the city. With his wife, it becomes a bit more risky when you consider how much crime takes place in the urban areas. The suburbs (many of which are practically crime free) start to look a lot more attractive. You add in some kids, and that small home space, lack of outdoor playing space, and utterly shit American urban public schools (and not to mention their costly private school alternatives), it starts to make almost zero sense to live in the city, unless you're extremely rich and can shield yourself from all the undesirable elements.
Amen. That sums it up.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 07:00 AM   #3751
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Its unfortunate that both the government(federal and state) and the general population dislikes urban environment. BTW, why you do label people that criticizes suburban areas "liberal"?

Last edited by LtBk; January 19th, 2009 at 08:39 AM.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #3752
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That's what people here don't understand. Not everyone wants a $400,000 urban warehouse conversion loft downtown, especially when they can get something for twice the square footage for half the price in a suburb.
Yeah, I've had this discussion more often. The problem is good apartment/condos are very expensive. In NL, they're mostly retirees and upper class people whose kids already left the parents house. I don't think you can get many families in downtown areas.

There's a reason why people left core cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Rochester en-masse.

That doesn't mean there couldn't be any improvements in the suburban layout, such as tightened construction demands for energy-efficiency, pedestrian/cyclist access and somewhat less huge lawns.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 09:45 AM   #3753
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I think a rowhouse should be good enough for a family of 4.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 10:29 AM   #3754
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I used to live in a rowhouse for most of my life. It's mostly okay, but they're quite expensive, $ 450,000 for 1800 square feet of living space. However, detached homes are even more expensive in NL. I think the main reason why so many people live in detached homes in the U.S. is that it's seen as standard and it's mostly affordable.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 10:41 AM   #3755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
That's what people here don't understand. Not everyone wants a $400,000 urban warehouse conversion loft downtown, especially when they can get something for twice the square footage for half the price in a suburb. 90% of people don't give a damn about architecture or what whiny liberals think about "McMansions".

Also, a young man (not unlike all the hipsters that post here) can go and live by himself in the city. With his wife, it becomes a bit more risky when you consider how much crime takes place in the urban areas. The suburbs (many of which are practically crime free) start to look a lot more attractive. You add in some kids, and that small home space, lack of outdoor playing space, and utterly shit American urban public schools (and not to mention their costly private school alternatives), it starts to make almost zero sense to live in the city, unless you're extremely rich and can shield yourself from all the undesirable elements.

First of all the only one coming off as "whiny" is you when you label people you disagree with. And to say that some suburbs are practically crime free is...well...are you trying to be funny? Tell a joke, perhaps? I've not heard anyone say that the entire population of the United States should move into the city but that the suburbs should be more pedestrian friendly with more transit options and things like that. You don't need non-sidewalk supported cul-de-sacs in former farmland or forests with a ring of McMansions surrounding it to put your kid in a decent school.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 03:30 PM   #3756
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Near the Pentagon, Virginia:
Isn't this the Springfield interchange? It's by far not the interchange nearest to the Pentagon...
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Old January 19th, 2009, 03:38 PM   #3757
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You know, the thought had crossed my mind, but this picture was listed to be near the Pentagon, and they have a lot flyovers there too.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #3758
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Quote:
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You know, the thought had crossed my mind, but this picture was listed to be near the Pentagon, and they have a lot flyovers there too.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=...999592196,,0,5
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Old January 20th, 2009, 03:48 PM   #3759
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Childish discussion has been deleted.
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Old January 20th, 2009, 05:36 PM   #3760
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Thanks
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