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Old February 25th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #381
greg_christine
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Seattle Newspaper Endorsements

Seattle Newspaper Endorsements

Seattle Times
Question 1 - Build the Tunnel: No
Question 2 - Build the Viaduct: Yes
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...levated25.html

Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Question 1 - Build the Tunnel: No
Question 2 - Build the Viaduct: No
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...viaducted.html

The Stranger
Question 1 - Build the Tunnel: No
Question 2 - Build the Viaduct: Hell No
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=161447

Seattle Weekly
Cancel the election.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2007-02...ake-a-poll.php
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Old February 27th, 2007, 03:37 AM   #382
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That sucks about the tunnel i was hoping it wouldn't die just from funding.

We can spend $400,000,000,000 on a war, but we can't shell out 1% of that on an amazing proposal to open up the waterfront of benefit one of our premier cities...

I'll never understand WHY we can't fund more transportation/mass transit options in the country that seem to cost VASTLY less than what we spend on other issues that get NO opposition or delays...

It's our country!!! We're slowly rotting from the inside to propel ourselves farther on the outside.

Hello? Roman Empire?
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:17 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Slow people moving over to the right should be common courtesy too. I think most Americans are too selfish with their cars.
I wouldn't sell us all off that quickly. I believe part of this is because you are connecting a major urban area with a resort area. Urban areas for the most part do NOT obey the lane rules used on the other 90% of US interstates that are rural.

In urban areas there are so many lanes and a high level of traffic - this doesn't let the efficiency of US rules come to play.

Growing up in the midwest and on rural streches of US interstates almost EVERYONE obeys the rules of passing on the left and driving on the right. Growing up in a rural state, this was as much common sense as stopping at a red light. Everyone knew it without thinking. I think people from large urban areas don't understand the rules of the open road as much as people who grew up in this environment. This strech of road is beautiful, but not the symbolism of how people drive long distances in the United States. We're not all selfish

As far as the roads, YES, American roads are much lower quality than European roads. They're still drivable though, you would rarely be disturbed or visibly upset by low quality roads. It might not be perfectly smooth, but we're not driving on crumbled concrete and gravel. The weather conditions in many areas of the country are extremely harsh as well - which is a quick death to many roads. Growing up it went from -25C to almost 40C every year.

I envy European roads, and have been on dozens of them, but just giving my 2 cents on ours...
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:37 AM   #384
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All this business about how much better European roads are than American roads is silly, really. Americans pay significantly less in gasoline taxes, and the roads are not as good. Guess what? No one has a problem with that. The roads are maybe not the highest quality, but they get the job done. Also, note that the German autobahn system has 12,200 km for 83 million people, while the interstate has 75,376 km for 300 million people. That means in Germany, 6,300 people are paying for every kilometer, as opposed to the US, where about 4,000 people pay for every kilometer. Of course, the quality isn't going to be as good.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:43 AM   #385
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One interesting thing I would like to mention. I noticed that if we aligned drivers according to their driving skills, it would look like this:
  1. Rural drivers
  2. City drivers (like SF, Chicago, Seattle)
  3. Suburban drivers
Suburban folks are the worst drivers while they are more friendly in person than city people.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:47 AM   #386
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It's part of the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Most of it has to do with widening the access to the new bridge.

Sorry for the delayed response.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #387
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That's true, rural drivers in America see the act of driving along interstates/distances as much more of a "thing" than urban drivers do. There's an act to rural driving that's completely lost among urban drivers - and honestly just adds to the gridlock and delays in our cities. People in cities are so clogged in traffic and stuffed up with other cars everywhere that they just do whatever they can. The lack of traffic and urgency of getting somewhere "NOW' in rural areas lets the true art of interstate driving come through.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 10:07 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago View Post
That sucks about the tunnel i was hoping it wouldn't die just from funding.

We can spend $400,000,000,000 on a war, but we can't shell out 1% of that on an amazing proposal to open up the waterfront of benefit one of our premier cities...
The tunnel would have been more trouble than it was worth. Even with the open space above it, thats all it would ever be is open space. Because of weight restrictions on the roof of the tunnel, they would even have to weigh any trees that would be planted above it. I think the surface boulevard is a much more versatile, simple, elegant solution to the problem.

From the Stranger article. First artist's conception I've seen of the surface boulevard:
http://www.thestranger.com/docs/viaduct_options.pdf
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Old February 27th, 2007, 11:35 AM   #389
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Quote:
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the roads are not as good. Guess what? No one has a problem with that.
Speak for yourself please....I have a BIG problem with the condition of some of our roads here.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:30 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
One interesting thing I would like to mention. I noticed that if we aligned drivers according to their driving skills, it would look like this:
  1. Rural drivers
  2. City drivers (like SF, Chicago, Seattle)
  3. Suburban drivers
Suburban folks are the worst drivers while they are more friendly in person than city people.
With regards to driving skills, or obeying the rules of the road? I believe that rural driving and urban driving is a completely different way of driving, and each have their own set of skills. I have to agree, though, that suburban drivers are the worst (though I'm one myself) I get very frustrated when some people dont follow something as simple as the right of way at stop signs. As far as the moving to right thing is concerned, that rule is certainly more often observed, and more easily so in rural roads than urban roads, and I don't blame people for not moving to the right in the dense traffic in a city. I get frustrated, however, when people ignore it in the suburban sections of the freeways, often times there will be sections of 20-30 cars that are being held up because 4 cars are all traveling at more or less the same speed and occupying all 4 lanes, making it impossible to pass, and leaving a gap half a mile long between its nearest car in front.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 05:36 PM   #391
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^ that's true. On I-290 in the city of Chicago, there is still the noticable "pass left, drive right" when it's not crowded or at night (to a degree, some people just don't realize this rule if they're always driving in a city), but most of the time there's a lot of traffic - and then you can throw that whole logic out the window.

When I get out to I-88 in the outter suburbs though, the "pass left, drive right" really starts to be shown, and when I get to the 2X2 section of road outside the burbs, it's the norm.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #392
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Quote:
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Speak for yourself please....I have a BIG problem with the condition of some of our roads here.
Yeah, but you're in PA, which is notorious for third-world roads . The rest of the country isn't as bad.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 08:44 PM   #393
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That sure is a beautiful stretch of highway.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 08:52 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS View Post
Yeah, but you're in PA, which is notorious for third-world roads . The rest of the country isn't as bad.
Pennsylvania's roads, generally, are not the best in the country- but on the other hand American roads in general are much worse off than those of Europe.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 09:43 PM   #395
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Pennsylvania's roads, generally, are not the best in the country- but on the other hand American roads in general are much worse off than those of Europe.
And they're not going to be better than Europe unless we were to raise gas taxes to way beyond even that of European nations; fewer people pay per mile of American highway than European highway. It's just the nature of the beast, as the US is so much less dense than Europe. It's not just simply that we don't WANT better roads, it's a feasibility issue.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Here is something that is quite amazing - a motorway underpass that uses two roundabouts instead of STOP signs or traffic lights. As far as I know, it is one of the kind in California.

Ooh, we have a few of those along I-70 in Colorado. I love these things so much better than the usual stoplight/stop sign. Glad to know California is using them too.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 10:38 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS View Post
And they're not going to be better than Europe unless we were to raise gas taxes to way beyond even that of European nations; fewer people pay per mile of American highway than European highway. It's just the nature of the beast, as the US is so much less dense than Europe. It's not just simply that we don't WANT better roads, it's a feasibility issue.

It's too bad we can't be told the truth about the expense of maintaining a good road-system, instead it's always a financial emergency. We just keep ahead of the problems. One of these days, a bridge is going to collapse...wait a minute- that's already happened.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 10:50 PM   #398
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It's too bad we can't be told the truth about the expense of maintaining a good road-system, instead it's always a financial emergency.
I wouldn't trust the government too much on that. In NL, the car-owners pays € 20 billion (26 billion USD) every year, but the government only invests like € 2,5 billion (3,3 billion USD) each year, saying there isn't enough money...
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Old February 27th, 2007, 11:11 PM   #399
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I wouldn't trust the government too much on that. In NL, the car-owners pays € 20 billion (26 billion USD) every year, but the government only invests like € 2,5 billion (3,3 billion USD) each year, saying there isn't enough money...
For this reason alone, I would only be for higher gas taxes here if the money made were specifically targeted toward the transportation department, and not added to the general fund (which is what pretty much always happens)
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Old March 1st, 2007, 07:57 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czas na Żywiec View Post
Ooh, we have a few of those [roundabouts] along I-70 in Colorado. I love these things so much better than the usual stoplight/stop sign. Glad to know California is using them too.
I know that Colorado is the only state that uses quite a few of them for underpasses and general intersections. I know of five true (aka "modern") roundabouts in Sacramento, and the city officials are planning to build more. The reason is simple: they reduce the accident risk and the risk of serious injuries once it already happened. They improve the traffic flow and help save the environment by eliminating the neccessity to make a full stop and thus reducing the gas emission. Roundabout is always superior to a typical 4-way stop intersection by all means, and the statistique easily confirms that.

Unfortunately, American traffic bureaus are reluctant to install more roundabouts because there is a common belief that an average American driver won't be able to navigate them. Common sense vs. social conservatism. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", social conservatists would say. But what if it could work much better? It appears that Colorado has more common sense than the rest of the country at least in this field
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