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Old March 1st, 2007, 08:10 AM   #401
ChrisZwolle
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In The Netherlands, there are tons of them. i have to cross 6 roundabouts getting to work.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 08:22 AM   #402
Alex Von Königsberg
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In The Netherlands, there are tons of them. i have to cross 6 roundabouts getting to work.
Ha, UK has more roundabouts than any European country. They build them so often that sometimes I think it looks more like an abuse
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:45 PM   #403
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Thanks for the great report, Alex! The scenery is truly spectacular!! But what I don't understand is why there are so short tunnels in the US; the longest is only 4.2 km-long! :S By such a vast country and high peaks as in the Rocky Mountains, I'm really surprised. Do Americans blow up whole mountains??
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Old March 1st, 2007, 05:40 PM   #404
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^The main area for tunnels would be the Rocky Mountains (there are some near the east coast as well, but that's a very old mountain chain and has been worn down to a gret degree), and there aren't a whole lot of roads going from the east side to the west side. There are many of them, but given the population density on either side - most people fly over the rockies.

Obviously the most appealing way to build a road is to get from point A to point B with spending the least amount of money given what you're accomplishing. I think they can plan out a route with more freedom given the small population density - and build roads where you need the fewest tunnels. If an interstate is going from Salt Lake City to Denver ( the closest large metros along the rockies), you have a lot of room to plan out your route. I think they just stuck near rivers, as they will give you a platform to build roads without going right through a lot of mountains.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 09:40 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
One interesting thing I would like to mention. I noticed that if we aligned drivers according to their driving skills, it would look like this:
  1. Rural drivers
  2. City drivers (like SF, Chicago, Seattle)
  3. Suburban drivers
Suburban folks are the worst drivers while they are more friendly in person than city people.
Definitely...a lot turn into *******s on the road, I always get cut off in the suburbs.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 11:06 PM   #406
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@Chicagoago, this explains it, thanks.
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 09:40 AM   #407
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I have my theories about the state of motorways in the US- and of course, it differs by state, as that's how roads are dealt with in America. Not to get too political, but we spend a lot of money militarily overseas that could and should, in my opinion, stay home and on our roads. We also have a populace that seems to put up with the Interstates in the condition they are. If more North Americans were to travel and drive the motorways of Europe I think they'd be shocked at the poor state of those roads back home. I think it'd be a real wakeup call for many.


You should come down south; I cannot remember the last time I hit a single pot hole and I drive 50k a year. Georgia, Texas (when not u/c), and even the poor states of MS and AL all have interstate roads that could not possibly be in any significantly better condition. Now, if you look at Penn., Ohio, and most other states in the region, their roads such, most of which, but not all, is due to lack of federal funding relative to the southern states.

Not that I am arguing against the notion of spending more back into infrastructure, but that is for a different reply (I agree).


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It's too bad we can't be told the truth about the expense of maintaining a good road-system, instead it's always a financial emergency. We just keep ahead of the problems. One of these days, a bridge is going to collapse...wait a minute- that's already happened.
Not here, the bridge is brand new, and as smooth as the touch of skin. Our only problem with roads is we cannot build them fast enough (funding issue).


This is the TYPICAL interstate in Georgia:

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Last edited by austin356; March 3rd, 2007 at 09:49 AM.
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 10:26 AM   #408
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@Chicagoago, this explains it, thanks.
furthermore, its also much easier to build a road on top of passes than through mountains, and it allows plenty more scenery and nice bends
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 10:28 AM   #409
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I am not a civil engineer, but I have my theory on how road pavement influences road maintenance. If the road is made of asphalt, it will have an exceptional quality for some time. But when it starts to deteriorate, then it deteriorates badly very quickly, so the dot just have to repair it. On the other hand, the road made of concrete is not as good as asphalt to start with, but it lasts longer and deteriorates slowly. This might be the reason why Caltrans has been ignoring this unsatisfactory conditions of I-80 for a decade.

By the way, in Europe the majority of all motorways are made os asphalt. The only state where the quality of pavement matched that of Italian autostradas was Nevada. I like their signage better too.
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 10:32 AM   #410
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You should come down south; I cannot remember the last time I hit a single pot hole and I drive 50k a year. Georgia, Texas (when not u/c), and even the poor states of MS and AL all have interstate roads that could not possibly be in any significantly better condition. Now, if you look at Penn., Ohio, and most other states in the region, their roads such, most of which, but not all, is due to lack of federal funding relative to the southern states.

Not that I am arguing against the notion of spending more back into infrastructure, but that is for a different reply (I agree)

Not here, the bridge is brand new, and as smooth as the touch of skin. Our only problem with roads is we cannot build them fast enough (funding issue).


This is the TYPICAL interstate in Georgia:
50k a year! That's like 150 miles a day! What do you do for a living?

Interesting notion you pointed out, are roads in the state federally maintained? if not, how is funding determined for a particular state? i know in california its often out of necessity that new roads are built/maintained, especially the most heavily traveled roads.
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 10:50 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
I am not a civil engineer, but I have my theory on how road pavement influences road maintenance. If the road is made of asphalt, it will have an exceptional quality for some time. But when it starts to deteriorate, then it deteriorates badly very quickly, so the dot just have to repair it. On the other hand, the road made of concrete is not as good as asphalt to start with, but it lasts longer and deteriorates slowly. This might be the reason why Caltrans has been ignoring this unsatisfactory conditions of I-80 for a decade.

By the way, in Europe the majority of all motorways are made os asphalt. The only state where the quality of pavement matched that of Italian autostradas was Nevada. I like their signage better too.
I'm not sure what roads are made with in different countries, as a variety of factors determine what the actual road will be made of. The main difference between asphalt and concrete is that asphalt is usually smoother, and less noisy, but are prone to a shorter lifespan than concrete.

However, asphalt is often easy to repair, as fixing something is simply filling a pothole up, though this kind of surfacing is not effective in the long run, because the whole road is not paved over, but rather refilled up, and are probably more sustainable to damage in heavy rain (imagine stopping a leak on a tire with some plastic squirt that solidifies)

Some of this is just inference, and some is stuff I've learned..., maybe someone smart will be able to shed some light on this
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:33 PM   #412
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However, asphalt is often easy to repair, as fixing something is simply filling a pothole up, though this kind of surfacing is not effective in the long run, because the whole road is not paved over, but rather refilled up, and are probably more sustainable to damage in heavy rain (imagine stopping a leak on a tire with some plastic squirt that solidifies)
In asphalt roads whole stretches of the road have to be repaved from time to time. It's not just covering potholes... that's obviously not enough.

What do you mean by being more sustainable to damage in heavy rain?
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 04:06 PM   #413
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furthermore, its also much easier to build a road on top of passes than through mountains, and it allows plenty more scenery and nice bends
I agree with you, I can't get my eyes away from the pix in this thread, but I was thinking if slopes weren't too steep in such areas, I mean, it's freeways/expressways what we're talking about. But the Brenner Pass between Austria and Italy is kinda the same thing.
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 05:23 PM   #414
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In asphalt roads whole stretches of the road have to be repaved from time to time. It's not just covering potholes... that's obviously not enough.

What do you mean by being more sustainable to damage in heavy rain?
They certainly do have to be repaved from time to time, but more often than not, I simply see potholes being filled up. There was a particularly bad hole that would keep getting filled up, then ignored for sometime, and filled up again for about 5 years before they closed the ramp off and repaved the entire section.

The rain damage thing is something I've observed, and might not be true. Frequently, for whatever reason, after heavy rainstorms or rain season, potholes and surface irregularities begin appearing everywhere on the roads, particularly places where I know there were potholes before, and they filled it up.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 01:11 AM   #415
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In asphalt roads whole stretches of the road have to be repaved from time to time. It's not just covering potholes... that's obviously not enough.

What do you mean by being more sustainable to damage in heavy rain?
I'm not sure what he meant by the rain but when I'm driving in the rain I feel much safer driving on concrete than on asphalt. The asphalt seems to damn slippery in the rain while the grooves they make in the concrete (also makes that cool whistling sound) seems to work much better with the rain.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:36 AM   #416
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when I'm driving in the rain I feel much safer driving on concrete than on asphalt. The asphalt seems to damn slippery in the rain while the grooves they make in the concrete (also makes that cool whistling sound) seems to work much better with the rain.
Yeah, true. However, in a dry weather, asphalt seems to provide more traction than concrete.

By the way, I recently noticed that when they do major renovation of motorways in California, they put exclusively asphalt. I haven't seen a single new concrete pavement. The road on the very first picture is used to be concrete but they replaced it with asphalt, and this trend is pretty much everywhere.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 05:04 AM   #417
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Alex Von Königsberg: I think you are an immigrant. And immigrants usually criticize a lot USA because they don`t have self-confidence.

But you know, I`ve been in Germany and there you don`t find big houses.

90% of Germans live in very small flats.

We should make another thread: Why europeans can`t afford to live in big houses?
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Old March 4th, 2007, 05:33 AM   #418
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I am not going to argue with you on this subject because:
  • You have no idea what kind of person I am
  • This kind of discussion doesn't belong to this forum category
If you want to discuss why Europeans can't afford big houses, then go ahead and open a new thread. But not in "Infrastructure and Mobility" subforum.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 06:49 AM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Yeah, true. However, in a dry weather, asphalt seems to provide more traction than concrete.

By the way, I recently noticed that when they do major renovation of motorways in California, they put exclusively asphalt. I haven't seen a single new concrete pavement. The road on the very first picture is used to be concrete but they replaced it with asphalt, and this trend is pretty much everywhere.
The standard practice is to pave in concrete, then after 10-25 years pave over that with asphalt, then 5-15 years after that, do a complete reconstruction of the road. They recently did the asphalt pave-over of I-45 between Houston and Dallas of a road that was built in 1969, which was in near mint condition. A rarity, that's for certain.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #420
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Alex Von Königsberg: I think you are an immigrant. And immigrants usually criticize a lot USA because they don`t have self-confidence.

But you know, I`ve been in Germany and there you don`t find big houses.

90% of Germans live in very small flats.

We should make another thread: Why europeans can`t afford to live in big houses?
WTF
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