daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 6th, 2007, 02:29 AM   #441
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

When I started this topic, I didn't really want it to boil down to another "America vs. Europe" thread. My main point was to show how unsatisfactory condition some stretches of I-80 are in right now. I went further and claimed that in Europe they simply did not wait for the road pavement to deteriorate that much. The motorways I use everyday to get to university and other places is quite good.
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 6th, 2007, 04:20 AM   #442
-Corey-
Je suis tout ŕ vous
 
-Corey-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16,227
Likes (Received): 5227

There are freeways in Spain like I-80 and even worst than that....
__________________

๏̯͡๏๏̯͡๏
-Corey- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 05:20 AM   #443
Xusein
 
Xusein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 26,174
Likes (Received): 10397

California has great roads in comparison to the ones here in the Northeast.
Xusein no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 07:05 AM   #444
czm3
Automobile lover
 
czm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Miami
Posts: 381
Likes (Received): 147

California has great roads, but I80 isnt one of them...even so, I80 is only like that for a couple of miles as it crosses through the Sierra Nevada. Generally, Louisiana, New Mexico, and Pennslyvania have the worst roads, while Arizona and Georgia probably have the best. It varies tremendously depending on the actual road.

Alex-there are lots of rotorys and roundabouts in the US, just not on the left coast. Colorado started building them in the mid 90s as a town called Vail refused to install traffic lights at the bottom of their I70 on ramps.
czm3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 07:18 AM   #445
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex537 View Post
There are freeways in Spain like I-80 and even worst than that....
Like on the picture? I drove across Spain all the way to Lisboa, and haven't noticed any major pavement deterioration. If you know of some, tell me where you saw it? Autopista/Autovia 7, 4, and 5 were in a very mint condition as far as I remember. Onus probandi is on you, my friend.
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 08:13 AM   #446
ADCS
Kickin' it
 
ADCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Screwston, Plexus
Posts: 508
Likes (Received): 37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
When I started this topic, I didn't really want it to boil down to another "America vs. Europe" thread. My main point was to show how unsatisfactory condition some stretches of I-80 are in right now. I went further and claimed that in Europe they simply did not wait for the road pavement to deteriorate that much. The motorways I use everyday to get to university and other places is quite good.
It was bound to happen, and I am not trying to pick a fight. The fact of the matter is that no one likes to hear criticism of their country from outsiders, yet, outsiders love to give criticism of others' countries, regardless of where they are from. It seems that on this site in particular, there are relatively few Americans compared to the rest of the Internet, so we tend to be a favorite target. Therefore, it is hard to discriminate between mere observation and yet another attack. As stated before, no country or continent is inherently better than another, since we all respond to the particular unique challenges that are placed before us.

Yep, Europe can afford to not wait. They have the money. I'm sure if anyone cared to look at the records about this particular segment of highway, the reason (most likely financial) for its disrepair would be pretty apparent.

Anyway, what good is the fighting? I'm sure there are universals between Americans and most of the rest of the world...
ADCS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 02:52 PM   #447
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

I don't think u wanna be compared to North Korea or sth. Although, they have fabulous 10-lane highways...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS View Post
At the same time, don't you think we do pretty well for ourselves given how much less money goes into our system compared to other Western nations?
Of course, that's the reason; no one expects you to do better job with such amount of money, but the US should put more money into its highways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS View Post
Not to mention how much less money CAN go into our system per capita compared to other Western nations?
Not only 'Western nations' have good highways, so, yes, the US density is quite low, but it's one of the wealthiest nations on Earth (per capita), so I don't see how this should be a big problem, at least for highways, and especially expressways, where you can't mess around with bad quality, considering high speeds on them.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 10:09 PM   #448
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

This is a completely absurd conversation... i grew up in San Francisco and have driven to Tahoe countless times on Interstate 80. In terms of surface quality, there are sections of the road that are in extremely poor shape. However, you must realize that this is stretch of road endures some of the worst weather in the United States. Donner summit on I-80 could possibly receive more snowfall than any other stretch of interstate in the U.S. Combined this with relatively heavy truck traffic, it is difficult to keep the road in good repair. See below for annual snowfalls on Donner summit:



That said, I have also driven extensively in Europe. Most recently (this January), I drove from Munich to Kitzbuhel in Austria on the Autobahn. First, I would agree that this stretch of roadway was in great shape - night and day difference when compared to I-80 in the Sierra Nevada. Secondly, people definitely respect the left lane as the "passing lane". I must admit that I was in heaven, since slow driving in the fast lane is my number one pet peeve.

However, I find it ridiculous that people would compare a single stretch of roadway that endures extremely harsh conditions as an example for all of American Highways. Here are a few images of Interstate 80 outside of the harsh conditions of the Sierras:

Here is the start of the highway in San Francisco:


... and in Berkeley ...


... and in Richmond ...


... in Pittsburgh ...


... San Pablo ...


... Southern Napa County ...


... concrete section, not in the most awesome of shape ...


... in the central valley, here it switches back and forth between concrete and asphalt ...




... a newly repaved section while entering Sacramento (skyline on the left) ...


... concrete bridge over the floodplain west of the city ...


... concrete section on the business loop around the Sacramento ...


... Sacramento section with light rail in the middle ...


... here is an extremely wide section to the east of the city ...


... this wide section extends for several miles ...


... the road begins to ascend into the Sierra foothills ...


... higher ...


... soon after this photo is where the Sierra Nevada tour picks up ...
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #449
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391



Why do they've got this kind a road markings, and not ordinary painted lines?
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #450
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

Well, i have driven in Eastern Germany and Poland a few years ago, before the huge reconstruction of these Reichsautobahnen, which maintenance was about done by hitler himself, and not since.

Some motorways (German A13, Polish A4) looks more like a gravelpath rather than a full motorways.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #451
Billpa
Beer is a Tasty Treat
 
Billpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 767
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
However, I find it ridiculous that people would compare a single stretch of roadway that endures extremely harsh conditions as an example for all of American Highways.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not basing my argument on that one section of freeway; in fact, I've never driven that stretch of 80 in my life. But I HAVE driven in PA, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, New York, New England, Ohio, Indiana, WV, NC, VA, SC, GA, Fla, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas and New Mexico and I've experienced roads like that in several states- and in some cases worse. I've also driven in Germany and have studied countless photos of other European motorways and I've not once seen any single piece of motorway in western Europe that looks like that. If one exists, I'd ask that someone please post a photo of it here.
Billpa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 12:37 AM   #452
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

There are of course, they aren't common though. While Italian motorways/freeways (autostrade) are excellent, expressways (superstrade) are often in deadly conditions.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 03:00 AM   #453
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billpa View Post
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not basing my argument on that one section of freeway; in fact, I've never driven that stretch of 80 in my life. But I HAVE driven in PA, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, New York, New England, Ohio, Indiana, WV, NC, VA, SC, GA, Fla, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas and New Mexico and I've experienced roads like that in several states- and in some cases worse. I've also driven in Germany and have studied countless photos of other European motorways and I've not once seen any single piece of motorway in western Europe that looks like that. If one exists, I'd ask that someone please post a photo of it here.
I agree that European roads, in general, have a higher surface/pavement quality. However, I also would say that interstate highways in the U.S. fluctuate between great quality and poor quality... thus, many interstates in the U.S. are in great shape.
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 03:03 AM   #454
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post


Why do they've got this kind a road markings, and not ordinary painted lines?
They are called "bot dots" and are only used in states where there is no whether (i.e. snow, ice). They are good in keeping people in their lanes because they make noise when your tires hit them. They are common throughout California... I've also seen them in Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 06:39 AM   #455
BoulderGrad
Registered User
 
BoulderGrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,512
Likes (Received): 1177

Has everyone mailed in their ballot yet?
__________________
My safety word is "Keep Going."
BoulderGrad no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 11:41 AM   #456
Billpa
Beer is a Tasty Treat
 
Billpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 767
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
in the U.S. fluctuate between great quality and poor quality... thus, many interstates in the U.S. are in great shape.
No one has suggested there aren't good Interstates in the US; we've been discussing the overall quality vs Europe- and Europe wins that battle hands down. My point to you is that there is, unfortunately, too many examples of bad Interstate highway sements in the US. Your comment, that using one small sample from I-80 to paint the entire country was ridiculous and absurd, would be accurate, if it were true, which it's not.
Billpa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 11:46 AM   #457
gladisimo
If I could be anyone...
 
gladisimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF, FC, HK
Posts: 2,525
Likes (Received): 39

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
They are called "bot dots" and are only used in states where there is no whether (i.e. snow, ice). They are good in keeping people in their lanes because they make noise when your tires hit them. They are common throughout California... I've also seen them in Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.
Also saves the trouble and danger of paint wearing out over time, especially in a road as frequently as traveled as that. (NB that stretch of I-80 is just off of the bay bridge, after an intersection into 580 and 880, the Bay Bridge, as some of you might know is considered one of the most heavily traveled bridges in the entire country)

btw, sbarn, i think the ordering of the pictures on your post last page is off.
__________________
I left my <3 in HK

RIP Dopey - 9/2005 - 20/2/2008
gladisimo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 05:46 PM   #458
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billpa View Post
No one has suggested there aren't good Interstates in the US; we've been discussing the overall quality vs Europe- and Europe wins that battle hands down. My point to you is that there is, unfortunately, too many examples of bad Interstate highway sements in the US. Your comment, that using one small sample from I-80 to paint the entire country was ridiculous and absurd, would be accurate, if it were true, which it's not.
You realize I'm agreeing with you that the overall quality of roads in most European countries is better? My point was that Interstate 80 in the Sierras is not an example of 'typical' interstate quality. End of discussion.
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 06:18 PM   #459
Billpa
Beer is a Tasty Treat
 
Billpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 767
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
End of discussion.
If it's all the same to you, I and others may wish to continue to discuss this topic. I think the sample of I-80 that got all this going IS typical of too many miles of motorway in the US. Unfortunately, there is a wide range of conditions on American Interstates from very good to very poor. In western Europe you don't have that range- it's generally all very good.
Billpa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 09:15 PM   #460
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
They are called "bot dots" and are only used in states where there is no whether (i.e. snow, ice). They are good in keeping people in their lanes because they make noise when your tires hit them. They are common throughout California... I've also seen them in Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.
Why would anyone want to keep people in their lanes? If a car in front of me is slower than me, I'll naturally overtake it. Americans just drive, and don't overtake much?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
america, california, highway, highways, interstate, los angeles, united states, urban

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium