daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 26th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #4861
ttownfeen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: William T. Sherman's stomping grounds
Posts: 454
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

Meanwhile, a rockslide closed I-40 in NC near the TN border.
What an awful situation. That section doesn't have a closely paralleling US highway either. It looks like it's going to take weeks to clear it up.
ttownfeen no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 26th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #4862
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354



three months, no less...
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 01:27 AM   #4863
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
bbbbbooooooooooooo
I have no recolection whatsoever of saying this
Although, less bold, my opinion remains equal
booo
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 05:09 AM   #4864
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Me wonders if it is time to start seriously studying a major tunneling and realignment project for I-40 in that area - besides the rockslideS (plural - this isn't the first time that it's been down for extended times due to slides), that highway is substandardly narrow and slow with many total circles of tight curves.

Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 10:02 AM   #4865
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



That would be one hell of a long tunnel for Interstate 40 in that area.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 10:33 AM   #4866
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

Eurostyle

It always surprises me how few land tunnels the United States has. Even the Rocky Mountains don't have long tunnels. The Eisenhower Tunnel is only 1.7 miles long.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #4867
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17032

we have 2+ mile long tunnels in the NE , Euro style is definitely needed there though
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 05:17 PM   #4868
xzmattzx
Philly sports fan
 
xzmattzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Posts: 15,645
Likes (Received): 4265

Those tunnels would cost WAY too much.
xzmattzx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 07:17 PM   #4869
babareebu serb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielk2 View Post
US is the "Land of the Free" they say, that's only for people who already live there.
Everyone who aren't a US citizen are suspects of terrorism. Slow down, CIA.
Ha,ha,Big Brother is looking everywhere,you think?But a terrorism is a global problem,you'd also think so if your country'd have a such problem,or you and your living place..isn't so?
babareebu serb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 07:21 PM   #4870
babareebu serb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alqaszar View Post
I think Mexico should reclaim their territory between California and Colorado and throw all the bigots out of it .
What is about borders between USA and Mexico,is that big border crossing near Tijuana reopened,after gun fire between US Customs and Mexican gangs??Illegal immigration is also global problem like terrorism,especially in USA and Europe!
babareebu serb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 07:29 PM   #4871
Danielk2
DanielKK
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dronninglund
Posts: 670
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by babareebu serb View Post
Ha,ha,Big Brother is looking everywhere,you think?But a terrorism is a global problem,you'd also think so if your country'd have a such problem,or you and your living place..isn't so?
Interesting theory, but one thing is let out. The so called "impossible" event that an american citizen could be a terrorist. Don't always blame the immigrants!
__________________
thinkmetric
Danielk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 07:32 PM   #4872
Danielk2
DanielKK
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dronninglund
Posts: 670
Likes (Received): 2

One great thing about European tunnels is , that most of them do not have an overtaking ban. And some great tunnels have shoulders.
__________________
thinkmetric
Danielk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 08:27 PM   #4873
Danielk2
DanielKK
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dronninglund
Posts: 670
Likes (Received): 2

I'll take that thing back, since that FBI recently arrested 2 people suspected for planning terrorism against Denmark
__________________
thinkmetric
Danielk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2009, 11:44 PM   #4874
babareebu serb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 0

Interesting about bus operators in Mexico: www.pullman.com.mx and www.uno.com.mx/espanol/index.html I think there is not reason for them to operate between USA and Mexico!But,by the way I don't know how is possible for Mexican citizens to get entry visa for USA,and which passengers are numerous,Mexicans or Americans?
babareebu serb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2009, 04:51 AM   #4875
OakRidge
Registered User
 
OakRidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: El Camino Real - California
Posts: 693
Likes (Received): 1462

Quote:
Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
Those tunnels would cost WAY too much.
And wouldn't be worth it. I can think of better things to spend the funds on.
OakRidge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2009, 03:08 PM   #4876
J N Winkler
Road enthusiast
 
J N Winkler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oxford
Posts: 265
Likes (Received): 1

It is important to realize that neither European transport agencies nor American state DOTs build tunnels just to be building tunnels. Typically each tunnel has to be economically justified, as is also true for expensive engineering works in general, like high-level viaducts, large embankments, large cuttings, etc.

For tunnels over land (as opposed to subaqueous tunnels, which are used for estuarial crossings) the tradeoff is typically between greater cost and greater benefit to traffic per vehicle transit. A mountain tunnel can allow a freeway to be built through mountainous terrain with lower grades and a much higher design speed, which in turn makes the freeway easier to negotiate for all traffic and much more economical for heavy vehicles. But in the American context, placarded vehicles are either not allowed through tunnels full stop, or are allowed through only with escorts or only at set times when traffic is otherwise low; this means that a substantial segment of the road freight sector gets no real benefit from highway tunnels. Tunnels also attract expensive and onerous requirements for nearby first-response infrastructure and 24-hour surveillance and control. This means that the high costs of construction are complemented by high costs of operation.

These factors chip away at benefits while inflating costs. Moreover, the benefits are linked to traffic and so tend to be back-loaded in time, which makes it more difficult for tunnel proposals to reach the payoff point within the 20- to 25-year amortization periods which American state DOTs use to ensure that highway investments are appraised on an equal basis.

How do European highway agencies get around these problems? Some do, while others don't. In a crude simplification, there are "northern" and "southern" models of tunnel construction and operation. In the "northern" model, which is essentially similar to US practice, agencies tend to avoid tunnels except for estuarial crossings, and use large embankments or rock cuts whenever practical. Britain is one example of a country following the "northern" model. In the "southern" model, which is followed in Spain and Italy, tunnels are built very frequently, which allows contractors to amortize the cost of tunnel boring equipment over multiple contracts (in "northern" countries the norm is that the tunnel construction cost includes the purchase cost of the boring equipment). Tunnels also vary widely in length, with active surveillance and control being concentrated on the longest and most heavily used tunnels, which holds down the operating cost. European highway agencies in general (both "northern" and "southern") tend to use longer amortization periods (in Britain, for example, it is 40 years), which tends to favor tunnel construction in general. There is also a marked disparity in procedures of tunnel operation, with "northern" countries having very strict rules about hazardous materials in tunnels (cf. the "exploding tanker" regulatory sign in Britain, which is often used at tunnels which are not available to transport flammable materials) while "southern" countries will allow anything within the tunnel. "Northern" countries are also more likely to have overtaking bans than "southern" countries. In essence, "southern" countries are willing to accept more risk for greater efficiency in operation and more economic benefit per vehicle transit than "northern" countries.

There is a presentational aspect as well. In general, tunnels are safer (in terms of deaths per unit distance travelled by vehicle) than lengths of open road. However, serious incidents in tunnels have the potential to result in multiple fatalities, typically from causes which would not pose serious problems in the open air. The Mont Blanc tunnel fire is the classic example: it was caused by a truck carrying flour and margarine and killed 39 people. It is much easier for an agency to have ownership of a length of open road where people die just a few at a time, normally in easily avoidable situations which are at least partly their own fault, rather than a tunnel where dozens of people can die in a single incident which is far beyond their powers to avoid. This is true even if the tunnel has the lower fatality rate overall. This phenomenon of risk perception has led to suggestions (in Switzerland) that added weight should be assigned to the risk of multiple-fatality single incidents, even if this results in people dying in ones or twos on the open road who would have survived if a tunnel had been built instead.
J N Winkler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #4877
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091028/...idge_closure_6

The Bay Bridge in San Francisco (Interstate 80) is closed again after an earlier emergency repair failed.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #4878
wdw35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 0



J N Winkler, thank you for taking your time to write such a good and informative post.
I'd sure like to see more of these over the H&A forums
wdw35 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2009, 02:34 AM   #4879
jchernin
Registered User
 
jchernin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Santa Rosa/North Bay
Posts: 508
Likes (Received): 536

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091028/...idge_closure_6

The Bay Bridge in San Francisco (Interstate 80) is closed again after an earlier emergency repair failed.


bay area traffic as a result of the closure, around 415 pm
jchernin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2009, 08:08 AM   #4880
pwalker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Native Seattleite
Posts: 1,438
Likes (Received): 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchernin View Post


bay area traffic as a result of the closure, around 415 pm
Those not familiar with this corridor may not realize how important and critical it is for the Bay Area. I know there are long-term plans for replacement, but the next 5-10 years are also critical. A very difficult situation for this area, and one that could indeed cause critical difficulties in the public, commercial, and ultimately the economic health of the Bay Area.
pwalker no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
america, california, highway, highways, interstate, los angeles, united states, urban

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium