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Old January 9th, 2010, 04:57 PM   #5121
ir desi
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I-95 north of Bangor has strategic reasons to exist: high speed connection to a foreign country and link to remote regions of the U.S. Please pardon, but you ought to think a little deeper than AADT numbers.

As for I-180...
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Old January 9th, 2010, 05:01 PM   #5122
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If i shouldn't think AADT then what should i think. Moved persons or cargo?? People's enormous desire to go to Canada??. They might as well just make a 2x2 Expwy instead
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Old January 9th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #5123
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If i shouldn't think AADT then what should i think. Moved persons or cargo?? People's enormous desire to go to Canada??. They might as well just make a 2x2 Expwy instead
To me it seems that a route from Bangor to St Stephen/Calais, pointed toward Saint John and Fredericton, would've been a better plan.

Also, IIRC, only one of the roadways for that part of I-95 was built originally-- the second was added some years later. I could be wrong about that, though.
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Old January 9th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #5124
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North Carolina is indeed a unique state. With the 2nd largest rural population in the country behind Pennsylvania, its 9.5 million residents are spread out over the entire state with a somewhat uniform distribution. Where else do you see traffic lights out in the country?


NCDOT's overall goal is to provide 4-lane divided-highway access within less than 10 miles of 96% of the state's residents.

Highway development has long been used to spur economic development in impoverished areas of the state.

I-85's sudden shifts from 8-lane sections down to 4-lanes and back again is the result of the state's equity formula for highway funding. Only 50% of revenue is distributed based on population. The rest is equally distributed across the state broken down to 7-10 or so groups of counties. I-85 traverses different regions that have allocated their funds differently.

As a result, Charlotte's in gridlock, and Henderson, NC (pop. 20,000) has a brand new partial urban loop. The equity formula is being abolished soon I believe.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #5125
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Are there still plans to extend I-85 from Montgomery to I-20 near Cuba, AL?
Yes, I cant link the website, but for more info i85extension.com

This would be a major economic catalyst for the Black Belt region of the state.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 02:03 AM   #5126
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The highway that'll soon be known as I-22 has been under construction for frickin' ever. The first segment, the US 78 bypass of New Albany, MS, was designed in the pre-Interstate era. The last time I drove up that way was in 1994, IIRC, and the last stretches in Mississippi were approaching completion at that time. Except not really the last-- there's still no tie-in to the rest of the Interstate system at Memphis, which I surmise will be via the I-469 beltway corridor. Plus, the Mississippi parts were built without paved shoulders and with substandard signage-- has that been corrected yet? Yes, it has-- Google Streetview FTW!

In 1994, the only completed segment in Alabama was the first few miles from the Mississippi border. Interestingly, that segment appeared to have been built right on the footprint of the existing two-lane US 78. The bridges carrying local roads over US 78/I-22 have steel plate girder spans over the roadways but precast concrete beams from the outer bents to the abutments-- and the concrete beams are deeper in profile despite being much shorter, which makes the proportions look

As far as I-959/I-422 or whatever, in addition to being against it, I'm skeptical that it'll ever be built. Alabama has a long history of saying that they'll build various enormous highway projects that never materialize. While Georgia's Northern Arc project was still alive in the early 00's, Alabama was saying that they intended to build their segment of an I-22 route along US 72 from Mississippi to Scottsboro, then directly toward Rome, GA via AB 35 and GA 20 to tie into the Northern Arc at I-75 near Cartersville, despite the fact that a perfectly adequate 2x2 highway west of Huntsville had been completed in the '80's, and despite Mississippi's decision to widen US 72 instead of building a freeway in that corridor. There was also talk of building tollways in both the US 78 and US 80 corridors, but those, too, never materialized, and the US 80 corridor still isn't fully 2x2.

That said, IMO Alabama has a pretty good highway network, with the Interstates well supplemented by an extensive system of 2x2 highways. I have a mental Alabama highways wish list (as if anyone cares), but it's pretty short.
Work is schedule to being on a two mile stretch from AL 79 to AL 75 near Pinson in Jefferson County late this year.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 02:46 AM   #5127
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Current western end of I-459, future western end of I-422
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...k&z=15&iwloc=A

[email protected]
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...27595&t=k&z=15

[email protected]
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...13797&t=k&z=16

[email protected] Eastern end
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...27595&t=k&z=15

Last edited by Stuck in Bama; January 10th, 2010 at 03:21 AM.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 02:55 AM   #5128
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I-20/59 @ US 31/280 (Red Mountain Expressway)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...13797&t=k&z=16

I-20/I-59 Split

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...13797&t=k&z=16

I-65 @ I-20/59

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...k&z=16&iwloc=A

Last edited by Stuck in Bama; January 10th, 2010 at 03:12 AM.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #5129
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Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
That said, IMO Alabama has a pretty good highway network, with the Interstates well supplemented by an extensive system of 2x2 highways. I have a mental Alabama highways wish list (as if anyone cares), but it's pretty short.
Only in northern Alabama. The rest of the state (though I can only personally attest for the western half of the state) lacks an adequate network of 2x2 highways.

I'm against the building of any E-W freeway in northern Alabama until the highway network in the rest of the state is brought up to snuff.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #5130
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I-40/I-44 in Oklahoma City, OK
Weird interchange, instead of loop ramps, there are left exits.
[IMG]http://i46.************/sbk3dc.jpg[/IMG]

I-35/I-44 in Oklahoma City, OK
A mix of loop ramps and left exits.
[IMG]http://i45.************/295e79u.jpg[/IMG]
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Old January 11th, 2010, 11:59 AM   #5131
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I'm against the building of any E-W freeway in northern Alabama until the highway network in the rest of the state is brought up to snuff.
That's not really how it works though. The equity model of equal spending in all parts of a state or country often leads to overinvestment in certain areas. They have this setup in Belgium, and the result is many useless public works in some areas, and underinvestment in other areas, because they have different (more expensive) needs.

I was wondering if they will ever build an east-west freeway from Chattanooga via Huntsville to Memphis. That would shave off about 35 miles, but also connects the regional cities of Chattanooga, Huntsville, Florence, Corinth and Memphis.

In Alabama, Dothan is the largest city not connected by freeway.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 06:35 PM   #5132
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The I-581/I-81 interchange north of Roanoke, VA uses a left exit for I-81S merging to I-581S which isn't much of a problem, but the left-entrance from I-581N to I-81S is horrible, partly just because it's a left entrance, and also its got a very short merging lane.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #5133
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That's not really how it works though. The equity model of equal spending in all parts of a state or country often leads to overinvestment in certain areas. They have this setup in Belgium, and the result is many useless public works in some areas, and underinvestment in other areas, because they have different (more expensive) needs.

I was wondering if they will ever build an east-west freeway from Chattanooga via Huntsville to Memphis. That would shave off about 35 miles, but also connects the regional cities of Chattanooga, Huntsville, Florence, Corinth and Memphis.

In Alabama, Dothan is the largest city not connected by freeway.
There was talk a few years back about a "spur" from I-10 in FL to Dothan. Havent heard much about it since. I think a toll road from Montgomery to Panama City, FL is an idea that should be considered.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:02 AM   #5134
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Does anyone have any maps of failed highway expansions in your city?

Here was Tucson Arizona's masterplan in 1960. If this were built, it would make traveling in Tucson much easier as the 10 and the 19 both travel south.



Here is Tucson today.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:17 AM   #5135
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There was talk a few years back about a "spur" from I-10 in FL to Dothan.
Back during my activist days, someone from Dothan contacted me about that project. His group wanted the highway to run through the center of town, not the 'burbs!

IIRC (and judging how I've fared re Alabama road knowledge, I probably don't ) the Panama City-Dothan project was intended largely as a hurricane evacuation route.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #5136
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Back during my activist days, someone from Dothan contacted me about that project. His group wanted the highway to run through the center of town, not the 'burbs!

IIRC (and judging how I've fared re Alabama road knowledge, I probably don't ) the Panama City-Dothan project was intended largely as a hurricane evacuation route.
Sadly that is the case down there , ppl aren't as educated as the rest of the US. The South Road & Rail network except Florida need a overhaul. Unfortnatly the ppl in the Southeast will get stuck will FRA standard High Speed Rail , unlike most the US , which is going with Regular High Speed Rail. There needs to be transportation / infrastructure education programs down there.

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Old January 12th, 2010, 10:01 AM   #5137
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Does anyone have any maps of failed highway expansions in your city?

Here was Tucson Arizona's masterplan in 1960. If this were built, it would make traveling in Tucson much easier as the 10 and the 19 both travel south.
Tucson may have the most underdeveloped freeway network of any larger city in the United States. Two freeways for a metropolitan area of just over 1 million people.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #5138
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Tucson may have the most underdeveloped freeway network of any larger city in the United States. Two freeways for a metropolitan area of just over 1 million people.
What Tucson has now are essentially the freeways (now denominated I-10 and I-19) which were planned in 1950, plus Aviation Parkway (SR 210). In 1950, Tucson's population was still under 50,000. At the time of the 2000 Census, it had increased to just under 500,000.

It is conventional to say Tucson has a metropolitan area population of about 1 million, but the Tucson metropolitan area includes all of Pima County, not just the urbanized areas which are in or near the City of Tucson. The population of unincorporated Pima County has always been fairly large in comparison to that of Tucson. In 1950 it was a little over 93,000, by 1960 it had fallen by more than a half from the 1950 level (probably because of populated but unincorporated county land being annexed by Tucson and other cities), and since then it has registered a decade-on-decade increase and was a little over 305,000 in 2000.

The map extract posted by Soup or Man actually comes from the Tucson Transportation Study, which was published in 1965. (I think I may have a camera copy of the complete study, and it plus other Tucson-related transportation documentation can be found at the main public library in downtown Tucson.) The network proposed is of course much larger than in the 1950 plan, but not all of the major roads shown were necessarily intended to be built as freeways. For example, it was envisaged that the northeastern orbital route (labelled "Rillito-Pantano Parkway") might be built as an expressway rather than a full freeway, with grade separation only at select important intersections. It is my personal opinion that even if the 1965 network had been completely built out, with all of the proposed major roads being constructed as full freeways, it would still have been grossly inadequate to provide Tucson with the level of mobility seen in cities which experienced growth at slower rates in the postwar period, such as Wichita, Kansas.

By 1980 all of the freeways additional to I-10 and I-19 had fallen to a combination of cost concerns and community opposition, with the exception of Aviation Parkway, parts of which were built in the mid-1980's. Since 1980 the focus for road improvements in Tucson has been on the arterial road system. The 1980 update of the Tucson thoroughfare plan envisaged that grade separations would be provided at select major intersections, and this has been done at several locations--notably on Tanque Verde Road in far northeast Tucson--but not on anything like the scale called for in 1980.

I have been told, but have not verified this by actually looking up tax data, that Pima County has the heaviest property taxes of any county in Arizona. The logical measure would be tax per unit of appraised value but this is possibly also true on a per capita basis. The costs of operating the highway system in Tucson must be a huge driver for high taxes because the lack of a dense freeway network means that a substantial amount of freight traffic has to be carried on the arterial system, whose density is not sufficient to overcome the effects of truck axle loading.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 11:26 PM   #5139
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The equity model of equal spending in all parts of a state or country often leads to overinvestment in certain areas. They have this setup in Belgium, and the result is many useless public works in some areas, and underinvestment in other areas, because they have different (more expensive) needs.
I thought this model had been abandoned for roads in Belgium, now that Belgium no longer has any federal roads. The states themselves decide when to build new roads and they fully pay them out of their own funds (even though there is the usual Belgian debate about Flanders funds flowing to the other two communities, but that has nothing to do with equalisatio nof spendings).
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Old January 14th, 2010, 12:21 AM   #5140
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I-40/I-44 in Oklahoma City, OK
Weird interchange, instead of loop ramps, there are left exits.
Left Exits and Left entrances on USA Interstate Highway System?. I didn't know that the Intestate Standards allow that kind of Interchanges.
I believed that only here in Mexico Build that kind of crap.
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