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Old March 2nd, 2010, 06:19 AM   #5361
mgk920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Embarcadero Freeway only carried 40,000 - 70,000 AADT. A grid pattern street system like San Francisco has is capable of absorbing that kind of traffic. It's quite different when it is a through route, imagine demolishing I-80 in Oakland or US 101 south of San Francisco for example.

The Alaskan Way viaduct carries 74,000 AADT. That's also not very much, a six lane boulevard with signals would be capable of carrying that kind of traffic. But the question is if it's desirable to have that kind of traffic on city streets.
The problem with Alaska Way is that there really isn't a lot of space to put a surface street that is capable of handling that amount of traffic. Paralleling I-5 is heavily congested, too, so anything able to carry less traffic on Alaska Way is not an option. And yes, it would also very effectively cut the waterfront off from Seattle's downtown area.

Originally, Alaska Way also carried a mainline railroad with 'street' running, but the former Great Northern Railway (now BNSF) eliminated that over 100 years ago with a deep-bored tunnel under downtown Seattle. Its portals are by the (now Amtrak) King Street Station and near the north end of the current viaduct.

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Old March 2nd, 2010, 06:27 AM   #5362
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thats right, sf has a transit first policy. that means creating DISINCENTIVES for driving and incentives for transit. if you make driving easy, then people will drive, period.
San Francisco will still ultimately have to do SOMETHING to get all of that through traffic off of the 19th Ave/Park Presidio BD corridor (it connects I-280 south of the city to the Golden Gate Bridge). That is one place where 'Transit First' will simply not work - a large percentage of that traffic is simply transiting the city with no real good alternate routes. The only long-term solution that I can see there is to tunnel under it all with few, if any, intermediate access points.

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Old March 2nd, 2010, 08:53 AM   #5363
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Tearing down the Alaskan Way viaduct all together without a new route would probably worsen I-5 conditions significantly. It's saturated already.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 09:01 AM   #5364
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Tearing down the Alaskan Way viaduct all together without a new route would probably worsen I-5 conditions significantly. It's saturated already.
Well they should tear this thing down weather theres a plan or not. Has WSDOT considered the deaths that this thing will cause when the Big one hits Seattle? I guess not , safety comes first with a structure like this. Since its been weaken by the last earthquake , the next one won't need to be big. A Tunnel would be the best solution , but this needs to go right now , and the Majority of the city supports it , although the new mayor doesn't.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 11:21 AM   #5365
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It is being replaced in kind, with a major contract (advertised late last year) having a bid opening date of April 14, 2010:

http://www.bxwa.com/bxwa_toc/pub/1573/toc.html

WSDOT is pressing ahead with the replacement while the advocates of the surface boulevard and tunnel options shout into the wind.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:28 PM   #5366
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Its always bottlenecked and it needs an overhaul. Also the Concrete and steel are rotting away.
If you plans were made to replace the interchange, then you guys might as well overhaul/or out right replace the GWB. With the limited land space what kind of interchange could be placed there??.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:41 PM   #5367
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It's over 70 years old. But I don't see them replacing the iconic George Washington Bridge.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 08:20 PM   #5368
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If you plans were made to replace the interchange, then you guys might as well overhaul/or out right replace the GWB. With the limited land space what kind of interchange could be placed there??.
New Ramps , and repaving are needed. And seismic protect , so of the beams have cracks in them. They Can replace the interchange , but that would require alot of money and a very tight design. I do see that happening in 10 years as the wear and tear and congested takes its toll.

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It's over 70 years old. But I don't see them replacing the iconic George Washington Bridge.
I highly doubt they would , when they announced they were going to tear down the Pulaski Skyway a few years ago Public Outcry was so much they changed there minds. Now the Skyway will get overhauled and only the Jersey City skyway part replaced.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 05:47 AM   #5369
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The interchange between I-95 and I-87 just a bit further in the Bronx is impressive too. I think that it too needs an overhaul, but the congestion created by the potential construction would be massive. That highway gives me a headache when I drive it occasionally.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 06:28 AM   #5370
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The interchange between I-95 and I-87 just a bit further in the Bronx is impressive too. I think that it too needs an overhaul, but the congestion created by the potential construction would be massive. That highway gives me a headache when I drive it occasionally.
I wonder if transportation officials in NY would consider using tolls to pay for an overhaul of the freeway system?.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 09:10 AM   #5371
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I wonder if transportation officials in NY would consider using tolls to pay for an overhaul of the freeway system?.
NY state is currently in an unstable political state and i don't think that will change for the next year.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 09:13 AM   #5372
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NY state is currently in an unstable political state and i don't think that will change for the next year.
I think that can be said for the rest of the country as well
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 09:30 AM   #5373
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I think that can be said for the rest of the country as well
Unfortnatly yes , our Country is becoming stuck in the past while the rest of the world blasts full speed ahead. But it varies state to state.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 12:30 PM   #5374
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I wonder if transportation officials in NY would consider using tolls to pay for an overhaul of the freeway system?.
There are already numerous tolls in the NYC area, but that goes to MTA, which mainly uses it to fund mass transit. (MTA has a budget deficit of 1.5 billion $, or over 10%, if you thought Greece was bad)
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 04:18 PM   #5375
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Unfortnatly yes , our Country is becoming stuck in the past while the rest of the world blasts full speed ahead. But it varies state to state.
I think not. I have yet to see a country overtake America with 10 lane Highways as widespread in the USA.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 04:31 PM   #5376
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Nah, 10-lane freeways are only in a few metro areas on large scales... It's really the stereotype that American freeways are always 10, 12, 14 lanes.

10-lane freeways are very common in a few metro areas like Los Angeles, Phoenix, Houston and Atlanta, but there are only a few of them in most other metropolitan areas. For example, Chicago has only one really wide freeway, the rest is 6 or 8-laned. Same for New York City, Dallas, Denver, Miami, Minneapolis, Detroit, Philadelphia, Boston, etcetera where there is usually one big freeway, and the rest are 4 to 8 lanes.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 06:20 PM   #5377
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I think not. I have yet to see a country overtake America with 10 lane Highways as widespread in the USA.
Maybe, but surface on many of them looks like surface of the moon comparing with many European countries. Also if you check quality or traffic management, lighting, signage many of these 10 lane freeways looks pretty bad. Just check out LA.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 07:27 PM   #5378
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There are already numerous tolls in the NYC area, but that goes to MTA, which mainly uses it to fund mass transit. (MTA has a budget deficit of 1.5 billion $, or over 10%, if you thought Greece was bad)
MTA is a roller coaster , but tolls don't fund it , only Mass Transit projects.

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I think not. I have yet to see a country overtake America with 10 lane Highways as widespread in the USA.
I'm tired of all the 10 lane freeways there starting to destory this country, and for what purpose they fill up faster. We need more Mass Transit.

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Nah, 10-lane freeways are only in a few metro areas on large scales... It's really the stereotype that American freeways are always 10, 12, 14 lanes.


10-lane freeways are very common in a few metro areas like Los Angeles, Phoenix, Houston and Atlanta, but there are only a few of them in most other metropolitan areas. For example, Chicago has only one really wide freeway, the rest is 6 or 8-laned. Same for New York City, Dallas, Denver, Miami, Minneapolis, Detroit, Philadelphia, Boston, etcetera where there is usually one big freeway, and the rest are 4 to 8 lanes.
It varies by the region , here its 2x3 or 2x2 in Urban areas , due to the highways being old.

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Maybe, but surface on many of them looks like surface of the moon comparing with many European countries. Also if you check quality or traffic management, lighting, signage many of these 10 lane freeways looks pretty bad. Just check out LA.
Signage works just fine , you Europeans seem to want us to be like you, in some aspects yes. But Freeways is are dept.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #5379
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Maybe, but surface on many of them looks like surface of the moon comparing with many European countries. Also if you check quality or traffic management, lighting, signage many of these 10 lane freeways looks pretty bad. Just check out LA.
Big highways were good back in their day, but the main issue is that their function and purpose has aged badly i.e. gas prices being high and carbon emission etc. But back in the 1950-60s it wasn't like that. In LA they are used very intensively.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 12:06 AM   #5380
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I think not. I have yet to see a country overtake America with 10 lane Highways as widespread in the USA.
The point I'm guess he meant was that 10 lane highways are so 60s, but back in the day but not fitting with current transport needs
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