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Old August 18th, 2010, 09:23 AM   #5961
miamipaintball
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the us should adopt many European road speeds, especially the autobahn for the less populated area in the north/ Midwest. like put no speed limit, and make the highways 4 (2 each way) lanes, and have semi trucks drive on the right unless passing.

Last edited by miamipaintball; August 19th, 2010 at 09:34 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 09:31 AM   #5962
g.spinoza
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you mean, on the right?
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Old August 19th, 2010, 06:44 AM   #5963
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you mean, on the right?
yeah sorry, was really late and tired lol i look stupid.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 06:57 AM   #5964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamipaintball View Post
the us should adopt many European road speeds, especially the autobahn for the less populated area in teh north/ Midwest. like put no speed limit, and make the highways 4 (2 each way) lanes, and have semi trucks drive on the left unless passing.
Interstate 35 South:
[IMG]http://i34.************/i77rsk.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i35.************/2jfmvir.jpg[/IMG]

They have the law in Texas for the left lane in rural areas for all vehicles. People just need to follow it all the time. As for no speed limit in rural areas, I agree 100%. I can focus on the road more than watching out for police.

Last edited by FM 2258; August 19th, 2010 at 07:06 AM.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 03:00 AM   #5965
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I-75/85 in Atlanta

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Old August 21st, 2010, 03:12 AM   #5966
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Ewww that city seriously needs more Transit......and Regional Rail....Atlanta has worse Traffic then LA. On another note some Midwestern states keep expanding there highways but can't afford to do it. Even the Feds won't pay for them , at what point will we stop building them?
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Old August 21st, 2010, 12:11 PM   #5967
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Very naive comment. A European-style transit system in Atlanta would remove approximately 1/10th of the cars seen on that picture. It's really not gonna change a thing, unless the change you want is a dramatic increase in budget shortfalls.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 04:13 PM   #5968
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Atlanta has the eggs-in-one-basket policy, where there's only one freeway - for long distance through and local traffic, heading North-South.

Parallel freeways would help the traffic, but there's nothing stopping a decent transit line/system being built (as well preferably) to take some of the internal city traffic off the freeway 'network' (in quotes as it's not really a net - just a couple of spokes that diverge and a loop or two).
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Old August 21st, 2010, 04:35 PM   #5969
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Quote:
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Very naive comment. A European-style transit system in Atlanta would remove approximately 1/10th of the cars seen on that picture. It's really not gonna change a thing, unless the change you want is a dramatic increase in budget shortfalls.
It should apply country-wide, not just to one or two cities. America will need a sopisticated transit system like ones in Europe simply bacause it makes things better and increases competitiveness and general life quality in a long term. With the rise of other global and super-powers America won't be able to rely on its current economic policies which means it will have to take the no-bullshit approach to improve its competitiveness and one of the things it will have to do is build a good public transport system which means HSR intercity trains, local short-distance railways and city tranportation systems such as metros, trams etc (i.e. like in Germany or France both of which have fantastic road AND transit).

Building even more freeways in a place which is already packed with 15 lane freeways is not a god and not a sustainable idea in a long term.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 06:39 PM   #5970
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Metropolitan Atlanta is about the size of Metropolitan Madrid with only one east-west and one north-south freeway, combined with a single beltway. That simply combines a lot of traffic on only a few roads, transit is not gonna make a significant difference, it's not like you could do with one 2x4 freeway instead of a 2x7 freeway.

Besides that, Atlanta is a low density city outside those few subcenters (Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Sandy Springs etc). Transit is never competitive in such environments. You can build a few profitable lines of course, but it won't significantly reduce road traffic. Atlanta is not Manhattan.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 09:09 PM   #5971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Very naive comment. A European-style transit system in Atlanta would remove approximately 1/10th of the cars seen on that picture. It's really not gonna change a thing, unless the change you want is a dramatic increase in budget shortfalls.
Why don't you want us to build a Euro style network? Or American Network.....you seem to only want us to build freeways which aren't good anymore. We need ALT Modes of Transportation. This isn't Europe were you have good Rail and now are expanding your roads....

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It should apply country-wide, not just to one or two cities. America will need a sopisticated transit system like ones in Europe simply bacause it makes things better and increases competitiveness and general life quality in a long term. With the rise of other global and super-powers America won't be able to rely on its current economic policies which means it will have to take the no-bullshit approach to improve its competitiveness and one of the things it will have to do is build a good public transport system which means HSR intercity trains, local short-distance railways and city tranportation systems such as metros, trams etc (i.e. like in Germany or France both of which have fantastic road AND transit).

Building even more freeways in a place which is already packed with 15 lane freeways is not a god and not a sustainable idea in a long term.
Only the Northeast has plans for a Euro Style network which is basically restoring old RR's that were deactivated between 60s-80s. So thats about 6000 miles of restored Rail form what i counted and another 4000 expanded miles mostly in the Urban areas. Only 4 Corridors will be HSR , but thats enough for this region. Politics & Population size / densites make it easy to build things in the Northeast. Most cities are planning to build connecting rail like streetcars or Light rail if they don't already have it. The Restored lines will only cost half of the expanded lines so most states will do them first. Ridership on all Northeastern Transit systems has been growing over the past 10 years.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 09:21 PM   #5972
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Why don't you want us to build a Euro style network? Or American Network.....you seem to only want us to build freeways which aren't good anymore. We need ALT Modes of Transportation. This isn't Europe were you have good Rail and now are expanding your roads....
I don't mind America building a transit network. However, it's a bit useless to claim the roads are too wide and transit is really going to improve that. Atlanta is a bit of a special situation. Few cities have such a concentration of traffic on so few freeways. Apart from some spurs and connectors, there are basically only 4 freeways: I-20, I-75, I-85 and I-285.

For example, compare Atlanta to Frankfurt am Main (Germany).





Granted, Frankfurt am Main is slightly more polycentric than Atlanta, but I think Frankfurt's approach of many short 2x2 - 2x3 freeways is much better than Atlanta's approach of a few 2x5 - 2x7 freeways. It reduces the reliance on a single freeway.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 10:44 PM   #5973
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(I am assuming that those two above maps are of the same scale)
Also note how the Frankfort-Main area is far, far more densely developed than the Atlanta area - nearly the entire land area on the above map of metro Atlanta is built out with very-low density style development while that map of Frankfort-Main still includes oodles of rural farmland.

Besides that spread-out low density development within the metro area, I-75/85 in central Atlanta is so wide and carries so much traffic because a freeway that was planned to parallel that one to the east (it was to connect I-675 with GA 400) was never built.

Also, why is transit such an insignificant part of the metro Atlanta transport scene? Atlanta has a heavy-rail transit system ('MARTA') - BUT - Metro Atlanta has about the worst city vs. suburb political divide of any of the metros anywhere in the USA. Why don't the suburbanites want MARTA rail service? BECAUSE IT SERVES THE CITY OF ATLANTA! Seriously! (I'd tell you a commonly-used wording for the acronym 'MARTA', which means 'Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority', but I'll not to avoid being banned from SSC.)



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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:05 AM   #5974
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They've revived discussion of completely 675 with Big Dig style tunnels underneath east Atlanta.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:18 AM   #5975
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Atlanta doesn't really have a good road network from what I read and seen. Its based more on suburban road networks of cities in the Northeast and other parts of the country, in which there are lot of roads but most of them don't go anywhere, and depend on a few wide, but congested arterial roads to link the city and various suburbs between. Think of a tree based network topology.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:25 AM   #5976
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Atlanta has a transit system called MARTA. Here is the map overlaid onto a freeway map.



It has taken some of the pressure off traffic going to Downtown and the airport but as Chris said, the densities and dispersion of the metro population would make a more comprehensive system incredibly expensive and huge. Upzoning transit corridors would be a good way to get started but with so many residents choosing the single family house/sprawltopia lifestyle, there wouldn't be enough of a response. The simple truth about the US is that we will go from cars that burn gasoline to cars that are powered some other way. We won't become very 'European'.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:54 AM   #5977
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Atlanta needs to improve their infrastructure, both mass transit and roads regards of what type of fuel we use for cars in the future since Atlanta will continue to grow fast in next couple of decades.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 03:21 AM   #5978
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They should start out by build Rail and Mass Transit to poorer parts of the Region and Focus on improving Roads and Highways in the better off areas.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 03:33 AM   #5979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
America will need a sopisticated transit system like ones in Europe simply bacause it makes things better and increases competitiveness and general life quality in a long term.
Can you explain how building massively expensive transit systems can increase competitiveness? American cities are wast and sprawling, with low densities, and serving them with public transport will be very expensive. Highways are just more cost effective in low density environments.

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With the rise of other global and super-powers America won't be able to rely on its current economic policies which means it will have to take the no-bullshit approach to improve its competitiveness and one of the things it will have to do is build a good public transport system which means HSR intercity trains, local short-distance railways and city tranportation systems such as metros, trams etc (i.e. like in Germany or France both of which have fantastic road AND transit).
Again, can you somehow explain how transit systems can make America more competitive to China where workers are paid few dollars a day? Transport systems have nothing to do with competitiveness.
HSR can improve things in few corridors (mainly Northeast) but are you seriously suggesting people should start taking trains from NYC to LA? Or even to Chicago for that matter?
America is almost twice the size of EU with much smaller population. Its cities are huge geographically and people prefer to live in suburbs. You can't just transplant European way of doing things

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Building even more freeways in a place which is already packed with 15 lane freeways is not a god and not a sustainable idea in a long term.
There are very few freeways with 15 lanes or more comparing to the network size. Overall, US highways are serving this country well, they transport goods and people. They offer great mobility for its population. There were just a bit neglected in the last few decades.
Have you ever been in US? I'm asking because your comments are typical for people who never traveled there. I did over 20 thousands kilometers on US freeways, highways and small county lanes in last few years. They mostly do the job they were designed for, quite well.

Thinking that America should suddenly turn its policies 180 degrees and heavily invest in transit system instead improving its highways, is absolutely mad. The cost would be enormous, it would take generation, and there is no guarantee it would work better.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 03:44 AM   #5980
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While the suburbs are still growing fast, many of its cities are growing modestly. Seattle, Portland, Washington DC, Boston etc have received modest growth within the city limits. Boston's population for example went from 589,141 in 2000 to 645,169 in 2009 according to latest Census figures. BTW, are you suggesting that the US shouldn't invest in mass transit?
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