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Old February 12th, 2011, 02:08 AM   #6421
Paddington
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You're ******* crazy if you think urban areas on the whole are growing. Even old "main-line" suburbs can't retain population. The growth is overwhelmingly in the exurbs.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 02:37 AM   #6422
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You're ******* crazy if you think urban areas on the whole are growing. Even old "main-line" suburbs can't retain population. The growth is overwhelmingly in the exurbs.
Did I say urban areas on the whole are growing? Or anything affirmative at all, for that matter?

Actually, I didn't.

But out of four cities in New Jersey with populations over 100,000, three (I believe - I read this a week ago) have gained. The District of Columbia has grown. I think I saw that Philadelphia has. (But Pennsylvania figures aren't out yet so I don't remember where I saw that - it was some time ago. Might have been the estimates that are released annually for some places.) Other cities - Boston, New York, San Francisco - had already started gaining population during the '90s or in some cases the '80s. You happen to live near a central city that has, unfortunately, declined badly, but its experience is not every city's. And I hope it's just behind the curve.

Exurban areas are still growing (albeit perhaps not "overwhelmingly"), but I stand by my opinion that this isn't sustainable indefinitely. Of course, I could be mistaken.

Older suburbs that are built out are declining, in many instances, because there's no place for young people with families to live. The town I grew up in is about 20 miles from New York and solidly upper-middle-class, and its population fell during the '80s and then again during the '90s. (I haven't looked up yet what happened during the '00s.) Does that mean it's in decline? Hell no. My parents' house is worth about 25 times what they paid for it in 1960. But their street, where 30 years ago every house had a couple with two or three kids, has a lot of households where you've just got the same couple now - the kids are gone.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 02:39 AM   #6423
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Now, how do I change the "Registered User" that appears under my user name?
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Old February 12th, 2011, 02:45 AM   #6424
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You're ******* crazy if you think urban areas on the whole are growing. Even old "main-line" suburbs can't retain population. The growth is overwhelmingly in the exurbs.
Northeastern cities are growing , We have 2 types of suburbs... Dense Railway suburbs and sprawly auto suburbs... The Dense Railway suburbs are growing faster then the auto suburbs... This includes along future lines , most of the cities are starting to grow as well..... Maybe not in Michigan ...but in most states this is the case.... Cities should start to outpace the suburbs in the 2020s...
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Old February 12th, 2011, 04:07 AM   #6425
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/trefoil/

Loop 410 at San Antonio International Airport
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Old February 12th, 2011, 04:18 AM   #6426
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Northeastern cities are growing , We have 2 types of suburbs... Dense Railway suburbs and sprawly auto suburbs... The Dense Railway suburbs are growing faster then the auto suburbs... This includes along future lines , most of the cities are starting to grow as well..... Maybe not in Michigan ...but in most states this is the case.... Cities should start to outpace the suburbs in the 2020s...
That has much more to do with availability of land and skyrocketing home prices than some great sociological sea change. Where land is ample and prices are affordable, especially for first time homebuyers, the 'burbs do just fine. Additionally, as more people rent, that favors in-town residency since rental developments in the suburbs and exurbs are less numerous. And while singles with no kids may be moving into cities, many of them decamp for the suburbs and better schools once they have kids. Look at the dreadful enrollment statistics in Portland and San Francisco city schools if you don't believe me. People with kids don't want to live in cities.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 04:27 AM   #6427
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do we have a thread about carpool HOV system here?
or should we create one about the HOV systems in the US
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Old February 12th, 2011, 04:28 AM   #6428
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image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/trefoil/

Loop 410 at San Antonio International Airport
texas is king for nice freeways and huge freeways
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Old February 12th, 2011, 04:29 AM   #6429
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image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/trefoil/

Loop 410 at San Antonio International Airport
Texas highways are on a different planet than here.

Why do they elevate the HOV lanes? Never got the point.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 06:00 AM   #6430
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Texas highways are on a different planet than here.

Why do they elevate the HOV lanes? Never got the point.
I don't think that those are 'HOV' lanes. Rather, they are ramps for the recently-built I-410/US 281 interchange, the meat of which is behind the photographer.

Mike
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Old February 12th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #6431
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Yeah, that is probably the case in that particular picture.

Texas in general just has amazingly huge freeways, I am honestly in awe.

[IMG]http://i51.************/23m9309.jpg[/IMG]
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Old February 12th, 2011, 11:22 AM   #6432
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Huge fly-overs, but only one lane?
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Old February 12th, 2011, 01:31 PM   #6433
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That has much more to do with availability of land and skyrocketing home prices than some great sociological sea change. Where land is ample and prices are affordable, especially for first time homebuyers, the 'burbs do just fine. Additionally, as more people rent, that favors in-town residency since rental developments in the suburbs and exurbs are less numerous. And while singles with no kids may be moving into cities, many of them decamp for the suburbs and better schools once they have kids. Look at the dreadful enrollment statistics in Portland and San Francisco city schools if you don't believe me. People with kids don't want to live in cities.
Well as long as the Railway Suburbs are growing i don't really care that much about the cities. Its when the sprawly auto suburbs grow then i care , but those aren't growing that fast if at all...
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Old February 12th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #6434
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.... People with kids don't want to live in cities.
That's a bit of a generalization (although one could point out that it's not just young singles...but middle-aged unmarrieds like me, and empty-nesters move back in): my neighborhood on the edges of Philadelphia's Center City has plenty of yuppies with children. Apparently the local public school's pretty good. Halloween in 2008 fell on a Friday, the weather was nice and we'd had a World Series victory parade earlier in the day, so I was wandering around... some of the quieter streets - the streets with the million-dollar houses that supposedly no one wants to live in - were holding what were apparently open houses for trick-or-treaters. I don't have children and never will, but the neighborhood felt particularly...civilized, almost idyllic...that day. I'd never want to move, except to another city where I could find the same type of life without it costing me a fortune. ('cause I'm not a million-dollar-house type; I rent and sometimes struggle a bit. Lots of people in the neighborhood are students.... It's a nice mix.)

When I started my current job in 1999, my ten-block commute was literally the longest in my department of five (one of those people's husband is a doctor, they still live in the neighborhood I'm in now and now have children of about 10 and 7). I've since moved closer to work. Anecdotal, of course, but there are healthy urban areas out there. (And I grant that Philadelphia has some neighborhoods that are pretty bad. But Center City's growing, adjacent neighborhoods are reviving, and the revival spreads a bit farther every year. I saw, back in the '90s so it may no longer be true, a statistic that more people in Philadelphia - more actual people, not a higher percentage - walk to work than in any other U.S. city.)

My neighborhood - I've tweaked my exact location by a block or two - since I've babbled so much at this point:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...,0.005472&z=18

And now, I'm stepping out for coffee and a bagel, and may swing by the outdoor farmer's market around the corner if it's not too cold.
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Old February 13th, 2011, 02:22 AM   #6435
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You're ******* crazy if you think urban areas on the whole are growing. Even old "main-line" suburbs can't retain population. The growth is overwhelmingly in the exurbs.
They are. Almost all major cities are gaining in population.
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Old February 13th, 2011, 02:28 AM   #6436
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except that those who don't want to drive usually want the 88% of adult Americans who use cars regularly to pay, fund and subsidize massively financially-burden PT systems out of their willingness not to be obliged to drive.
More bullshit from you as usual. Using gas tax funds for transit makes sense because it reduces congestion on roads. And the only reason why mass transit usage is low in this country is because of government land use regulations that perpetuate suburban sprawl and massive oil subsidies (in the form of a low gas tax and tax loopholes for oil and gas companies) that keep fuel cheap.
.
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Old February 13th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #6437
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A gas tax is a subsidy?
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Old February 13th, 2011, 02:54 PM   #6438
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More bullshit from you as usual. Using gas tax funds for transit makes sense because it reduces congestion on roads. And the only reason why mass transit usage is low in this country is because of government land use regulations that perpetuate suburban sprawl and massive oil subsidies (in the form of a low gas tax and tax loopholes for oil and gas companies) that keep fuel cheap.
.
The Low gas taxes has also left our road network in terrible condition....
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Old February 13th, 2011, 04:11 PM   #6439
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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
More bullshit from you as usual. Using gas tax funds for transit makes sense because it reduces congestion on roads. And the only reason why mass transit usage is low in this country is because of government land use regulations that perpetuate suburban sprawl and massive oil subsidies (in the form of a low gas tax and tax loopholes for oil and gas companies) that keep fuel cheap.
.
I am amazed at how many large American cities totally lack public transit. I remember on one of my first visits to Detroit, back maybe six years ago or so, I kept wondering where their subway network was.

It's a good thing Gas Tax's are cheap in America, because there really aren't any other commuting options.
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Old February 13th, 2011, 05:25 PM   #6440
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I am amazed at how many large American cities totally lack public transit. I remember on one of my first visits to Detroit, back maybe six years ago or so, I kept wondering where their subway network was.

It's a good thing Gas Tax's are cheap in America, because there really aren't any other commuting options.
NIMBY's and Republicans often block any attempt to build a Rail system which is sad since theres a need for it. They often use the sprawl excuse , which often makes no sense since the corridors are dense. Detroit build a Light Rail / BRT network now and seems to be popular..... The question is what happens when gas spikes? Outside the NE Megapolis living without a Car is hard... The good thing now is sprawl is ending at least in the NE or changing to Railway sprawl.....which is better... Our suburbs are also older and walkable...
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